Using HI-303MMF for permanent install-your experience needed

eisenb11

Hi there,

I'm thinking about using a HI-303MMF (with the BT slipper) for a permanent in-car install.

The plan is to mount the unit under the rear window where it will be powered by an ignition switched 12V power outlet in the trunk. BT will be used to connect an Ipaq which will be mounted in the front of the car.

Now here's where I need your input... in order to do this, I'm planning on leaving the unit "on" all the time.

Do you know if the 303 will be able to handle this and still function properly?

The reason I ask is because my current GPS unit - a Holux GR-230 - was unable to perform this task. Once the car was switched off, the unit would run off of the internal battery intil it was depleted. If I return to the car after that, I find that I'm unable to use the Holux until the battery recharged a bit. The cause of trouble - the Holux runs off of the battery all the time. If it's plugged in, the AC power charges the battery which runs the unit.

Semsons first recommended that I swap the Holux for a Fortuna, but further research has shown that the Fortuna does not have a battery backed memory... so once the battery is depleted it can apparently take up to 45 minutes to reload all the satellite data (this is way too long for each car restart).

Further talk with Semsons and they are now recommending the Haicom 303MMF w/ BT slipper combo. This looks really promising. Since it is CF based, the unit is designed to on/off conditions similar to have an ignition switched outlet.

It also appears that the BT slipper has an internal battery... now that's where I start to get worried! If it works like the Holux, the slipper will not function if the battery is depleted (regardless of being plugged into a power outlet)... if it doesn't work like the Holux, then it'll run directly off the car's juice and I'll be good to go.

So I guess, the question is... will the HI-303MMF work under these conditions?

In particular, if I shut the car down and allow the batteries to run dry, will I be able to communicate via BT and quickly (i.e. less than 2 min) lock onto satellites with the combo when I return and switch the car on in the morning?

Thanks in advance!

eisenb11

Darren · Posted: Thu May 20, 2004 6:27 pm Post subject:

I suspect the 303MMF will operate in the same manner, i.e. ruon on battery when ignition power is switched off.

Have you considered this which is purpose deisgned for this type of install?
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Darren Griffin

eisenb11 · Posted: Thu May 20, 2004 6:43 pm Post subject:

Hi Darren, thanks for the info!

The BlackBox looks sharp! ... but I didn't want to mount an antenna on the roof of my car. Smile

After doing more research and reading every doc I could find on the Haicom website, I decided to give it a try (Semsons is really cool about returns).

According to the info on there, there actually is a battery backed memory on the CF GPS module so the satellite data will be safe if I allow the main battery in the slipper to drain.

The manuals also seem to imply that the battery in the slipper is a backup... which would mean that I should be able to run the unit off of a dead battery.

I guess a good test of this would be to see if the unit works with *no* battery installed! Smile

After reading all this info, I'm starting to feel a bit optimistic again.

I guess if things go completely south, I can jump back to the BlackBox and try to figure out how to get it mounted to the car... I wish there was a way to use the GPS antenna that's supposedly in my car's "shark fin", but no one's seemed to have figured that one out yet...

eisenb11

Darren · Posted: Thu May 20, 2004 6:50 pm Post subject:

You wouldn't need to mount the Deluo's antenna on the roof, it will work fixed anywhere that the 303-MMF will.

I hate to pour water on your plans but I have a feeling the slipper solution is not going to work in your situation because of the interaction complexities with the slipper itself. You could always mount any standard BT GPS and connect to 12v via it's cigarette power lead, switched by the ignition. The Royaltek and Emtac's have a hardware ON/OFF switch, if left ON they will power ON/OFF with the ignition happily.
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Darren Griffin

eisenb11 · Posted: Thu May 20, 2004 7:57 pm Post subject:

Hi Darren, thanks again for the info!

My original solution was to mount the Holux GR-230 BT GPS and power it with a switched cig power lead, but that ended up failing because the unit doesn't have hardware on/off.

I didn't know about the Roytek and Emtacs having that feature or I probably would have taken that route instead.

You mentioned something about possible "interaction complexities with the slipper itself". Can you clarify on this? (Sounds really scary!)

From what I understand, the CF being plugged in will probably cause the slipper's batt to drain. The scary thing with this solution is that I'm banking everything on the slipper being able to operate with a dead battery on AC power... not sure if that's a good thing to bank on!

Semsons thought the slipper to be the solution and I put an order in, but I noticed that they also have the Royaltek BT unit available on their site... it probably isn't too late to change the order.

One thing, though, that scares me a little about the Royaltek is that I couldn't find anything about the hardware on/off in the manual. I'm guessing that it probably operates for XYZ minutes then shuts off if there is no activity?

In all honesty, though, that BlockBox really looks like the ideal solution - I just wish it had a Sirf II/LP chip in it instead!

eisenb11

Darren · Posted: Thu May 20, 2004 8:02 pm Post subject:

The slipper is by it's nature a more complex beast, I don't have one but have heard of issues and it can be fussy in operation. It's main benefit is the facility to use CF, Mouse and BT modes, as your implementation requires only the BT mode then I still don't think it's ideal for you.

As for the Royaltek and Emtac's, I have both, can verify the do have a hardware ON/OFF and when ON they will remain ON until the battery drains, if they drain flat they will return to ON when external power is applied.

As a bonus the Royaltek has a built in datalogger which you can interrogate via BT and a good battery.
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Darren Griffin

eisenb11 · Posted: Thu May 20, 2004 8:15 pm Post subject:

Thanks Darren,

Hmmm, I'm starting to think that maybe I should change my order to a RoyalTek...? (although it's not a huge deal... a $8.00 shipping each way wasted)

Basically, these seem to be the two items I'm wresting with...

Haicom w/ slipper...
* CF GPS has it's own battery for memory backup
* ... but will it turn on when battery is drained?

Royaltek BlueGPS...
* We know this will turn on when battery is drained
* ... but can it protect the satellite info if battery drains?

One we know will start with the car is turned on (Royaltek) and the other we're not sure about.

However, the next point of concern is that since we know we're going to be draining the battery we need to find a way to avoid constant cold boots. The Haicom is appealing because it has a dedicated battery for the memory... does Royaltek have something like this to avoid the cold boots?

Ofcourse, if the Haicom turns out to not start when the battery goes it's immediately disqualified as an option! Smile

The BlackBox really does seem awesome too but I'm not very familiar with it's chipset (I hear average sensitivity and accuracy) while the Sirf II/LP generally seems to be highly regarded...

eisenb11

Darren · Posted: Thu May 20, 2004 8:21 pm Post subject:

Dare I throw one more possibility into the mix!

The TomTom BT GPS used to come with a cradle that charged it if desired in car). If hard wired using the supplied wiring loom it provide the function of switching ON/OFF with the ignition.

Now the problem here is that in Europe at least they no longer offer the cradle but some readers have managed to aquire one by asking TomTom nicely. I'm not sure if this is the same in the US or maybe a secondhand one on eBay may suit.

I use both the Royaltek and TomTom on a daily basis and have the TomTom hard wired via the cradle, no issues at all for me and it's been in use for 6+months so far.
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Darren Griffin

eisenb11 · Posted: Thu May 20, 2004 8:33 pm Post subject:

Thanks Darren,

I'm not sure about the availability of the Tom Tom unit here in the US. The danger or that, ofcourse, is that if it breaks (or gets fried by the Sun), it sounds like it'll probably be very hard to replace! Smile

I think I'm about 50/50 right on having Semsons swap the Haicom order with a Royaltek order (they're about the same price).

It would be nice to have the Royaltek which involves far fewer parts! Smile

I do have one question for you though involving the Royaltek...

You mentioned that if left on, the unit will run until the battery is completely drained. Assume I did this, went to the car in the morning and turned it on. Since the battery is drained, I'd be doing a cold boot... do you know how long this generally takes?

I know the numbers are stated in the specs, but I've found that those numbers usually don't seem to be right (they all claim about 45s).

In general, I've found the Holux to take about 2 min when recovering from a flat battery (although it took about 10-15 min the first time I ran it). I've read that Fortuna can take up to 45 minutes (ouch!).

Thanks again for all the help!

eisenb11

Darren · Posted: Thu May 20, 2004 8:47 pm Post subject:

I would say 2mins or so was at the high end for the Royaltek from a cold start, I'd expect less than 60 secs.
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Darren Griffin

eisenb11 · Posted: Thu May 20, 2004 8:59 pm Post subject:

Thanks Darren,

That's what it took to raise me over 50/50 on deciding! Time to contact Semsons and see if they'll change the order from Haicom to Royaltek! Smile

eisenb11

eisenb11 · Posted: Fri May 21, 2004 3:11 pm Post subject:

That was close... contacted them in the nic of time (they caught it in the mailroom).

Can't wait to get the Royaltek hooked up and running! Smile

eisenb11

Darren · Posted: Fri May 21, 2004 4:55 pm Post subject:

Glad you're sorted, the Royaltek is a great receiver and the datalogger function works really well.
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Darren Griffin

eisenb11 · Posted: Mon May 24, 2004 2:50 pm Post subject:

Hi Darren,

I just wanted to thank you again for the great help! Smile

The unit arrived on Saturday via US Post (surprisingly it was mailed on Friday morning). Plugged it in, drained the battery, the tested on Sunday. It works like a charm! With a dead battery, I tended to get a lock from cold in between 1-2 minutes. This unit is definately a keeper!

Now that all that is sorted out, I'm thinking of getting one of those external antennas. I'd like to move the Royaltek from the rear parcel shelf to the trunk (so it doesn't bake in the sunlight) and place the antenna on the parcel shelf instead.

I'm hoping that the antenna is at least as sensitive and the GPS unit so I get the same (or maybe even better) performance out of the unit! Smile

eisenb11

Darren · Posted: Mon May 24, 2004 5:45 pm Post subject:

Some forum members have had sucess mounting their BT receivers under the rear parcel shelf, it would depend on your vehicle and the material that the parcel shelf is made of but worth a try before investing in an external antenna?

With an external antenna I'd normally expect a small performance gain anyawys.
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Darren Griffin

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