Zire 31 GPS Solution - MAJOR PROBLEM

jblackmore

I bought the Zire 31 GPS Solution made by Kirrio last week, and other than niggles it works quite well on short journeys of around 3 miles.

This weekend I tried to navigate further (5 miles), and the navigation failed shortly into the journey with an error 'not enough memory', all route information was lost, and device could not connect with GPS unit until it was reset.

As I only bought this item last week, apart from some names and addresses, and the GPS software (ViaMichelin), there is nothing loaded, so it has 10Mb of internal memory free (of 14Mb max), and 184Mb of Card memory free (512Mb SD card). I tried smaller and smaller map files, with the same problem.

Last night I emailed Kirrio (the maker of the bundle), to ask advice, and they replied this morning, the response is below and is dissapointing.

I will return this item for a refund, as clearly it has been misrepresented as a full UK navigation solution, and is not fit for the purpose which it was sold, but wanted to make sure others are aware of this fairly major issue.

James.

Emailed from Kirrio English Customer Services:

----- Original Message -----
From: KIRRIO English Customer Service <english.helpdesk@kirrio.com>
To: 'James Blackmore'
Sent: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 09:41
Subject: RE: Zire 31 GPS Solution - 'Not enough memory' errors

Dear James,

I know quiet well about this problem. The zire 31 has not enough memory to
navigate on long distances, or in any case with large maps. ( ! please note
that a 28Mb file is double as much as the memory of the PDA ! ). You can try
to export very small maps to your PDA. It would probably work out, but it
would be quiet unpractical.

If you need the gps when you work, or for any other serious reason, I
sincerely advise you to purchase a better solution ( like an iPaq 1930 or a
Palm Tungsten ).

Sincerely,

Alex

jblackmore · Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:48 am Post subject:

Well, I have had no useful responses from either ViaMichelin or Kirrio.

PalmOne responded to say I need to have 8Mb internal memory free (I had 10Mb), and that I could install the Mapsonic app onto the memory card.

To do this in ProgramFiles/ViaMichelin/Mapsonic run insMS.exe, click the 'Change Destination' button and drag all files from the handheld window over to the SD card window.

Hotsync to install this.

I then deleted the Mapsonic app from the internal memory.

This gave me 12Mb of internal free memory, and did not lose any of my POIs etc which is good.

Since doing this I have not had any problems, so my feeling is that possibly depending on the map size, Mapsonic requires a lot more than 8Mb internal free memory to work properly.

I have experimented by loading some pictures into internal memory to reduce free memory, and found that with under 11Mb memory free I have problems navigating long journeys, but with 11Mb free it is fine.

This may be too much of a restriction for some people, but as I only want to use the Zire 31 for basic PDA functions (Contacts and schedule), then I can live with this.

I do find it appalling that PalmOne/Kirrio/ViaMichelin should sell a bundle which is so limited without properly explaining that, and that the different support desks give conflicting and unhelpful responses.

Hope this might be useful information for others.

BTW Just to recap, this is Zire 31 GPS Solution bundle using a 512Mb SD card for maps (I am using a custom map with major roads for all of UK, and polygons and streets only for the South West (west of Bristol), and Cambridgeshire, Brighton and Derbyshire, this gives a map size on card of around 65Mb.

Full UK Map would be 140Mb, and slows down routing so for my uses, is not justified, I could always add a small map of an area I was visiting as required.

James.

jblackmore · Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 5:38 pm Post subject:

Just to update this, I have realised that PalmONEs advice to install mapsonic to the card is a waste of time, firstly there are a bunch of config files which need to be in internal memory, so to get this to work you need to install to internal memory first, then install again to the card, then use filez or similar to delete the mapsonic.prc from internal memory.

The problem is as soon as you run a program from the card, the Palm seems to copy it into internal memory first anyway, so this is a waste of time.

I did get a call from ViaMichelin support today (from my email several weeks ago), and discussed this with them, they accept that their figure of 8mb of internal memory required is wrong, and say the actual figure depends on the size of the map on the card. They say 1-2Mb of extra internal memory is required for 'medium' sized maps, and couldn't say how much memory is required if the full UK map is used. I did suggest they update their documentation to have a table of memory required against map size ranges to make this clear which they will think about.

I assume most Mapsonic users will have 32mb PDA's so this is probably not an issue.

Sixty_9

When the Zire 31 / Kirrio / ViaMichelin bundle works it is great (bordering on excellent) but when it does not ...

In 10 days I have had to re-install MapSonic more than 6 times.

My problems are:
1. If you add a 6MB map to RAM (not card) MapSonic will not open (not enough memory). The only way I could get MapSonic to work again was to "Suppress" it and then reinstall. It took 3 or 4 cycles to figure out where the limit is (4MB MAX). Is there a way around this?

3. With a 3MB map (very small!) it works but twice, while driving I got an error. MapSonic closed and even after a hard reset it still could not open the GPS port. Suppress and reinstall was my solution. Is there a way to fix this while you are in the car?

This morning I added a 128MB SD Card, placed new maps on the card and deleted one in RAM. Now with 10MB free RAM and a 12MB map on the card (only the Brussels / Antwerp area) I thought I was set but ...

4. It still crashed! I was on my way to an appointment - with a few minutes to spare for once - when the lady said "Turn right". Due to road works I had to go straight on. No problem, that's what GPS is for isn't it? She will find me an alternative rout. While trying to recalculate the route the poor lady fried her brain again. Mapsonic would not open again without a hard reset (paperclip in in the back - but who carries paper clips in the car?). Now MapSonic runs but half my personal POI's are gone and it still can't open the GPS port! Can this be fixed in the car (without having a laptop in the trunk)?

5. Even if I remove EVERYTHING except MapSonic I can only free up 11.6MB. Is this enough to guarantee that MapSonic will not run out of memory again?

6. It is obviously necessary to have an SD card so why the f*** is it not included in the package in the first place? At least there should be a warning on the outside of the package.

Has anyone got a stable solution for this bundle? If you have, please let me know before Monday - I have to go back to the two appointments I had to cancell because of the screw up this morning.

Frogman · Occasional Visitor Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 2

I have just recieved a barebones PalmOne Zire 31 as a Xmas present.
I have not got much use for it but have always wanted a decent low cost GPS system for the car.
Having read the criticisms of the Zire 31 is it worthwhile buying and adding the extras like memory card, gps unit, software, external antenna, cradle, etc, or should I forget it and buy something else?
I estimate it would cost about £150 for the accessories.
If it is worth buying these various accessories which software and gps unit would you recommend?

Frogman · Occasional Visitor Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 2

I forgot to mention in my previous post that I want to use the Zire 31 as a GPS unit for travelling from the north to the south of France. Most particularly to skirt Paris en route to the south.
I note that a 512 mb SD was mentioned. Would a 1gb SD improve anything?
Incidentally I have been unable to run the accompanying cd to link the Zire 31 with my PC. I only get as far as choosing English as the language then the installation bar appears and my computer then crashes within about 10 secs. I am using XP Pro. Any thoughts on this latter problem?

Sixty_9 · Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 3:47 am Post subject: Not so bad after all ...

I've had this package for a few weeks now and I think I have figured out some of it's foibles.

Do:
- add an SD card and put your maps on the card.
- keep 10 - 11 MB free RAM
- keep a paperclip in the car
- close MapSonic before you put the PDA in the holder (I tent to eject the SD card accidentally while doing this - see don't).

Don't:
- load maps in RAM
- remove the card while MapSonic is open. MapSonic will crash and require the fix routine below. *

* The only problems I've had this week were because I ejected the SD card and I think last Friday's problem could have been related to this as well.

Fix routine (in the car without HotSync):
- Exit MapSonic
- Reset (paperclip in the back)
- Remove and re-insert the SD card
- Open MapSonic
- Check that the GPS port is activated

To answer Frogman:
- I don't think the size of the SD card makes much difference as long as your maps fit on it. The program runs in RAM anyway as far as I can tell.
- The installation program exits (without any warnings) if you don't have administrator rights on the PC. At least that's what it did on Win2k Pro ...

- Is this package worth it? A week ago I would have said "No way" but I'm definitely beginning to warm to it. It's not a Magellan Roadmate but it did not cost 1600 Euro either. I paid 325 Euro (if you include the SD card) and that includes a cute PDA and a GPS mouse -- both of which can be used elsewhere. Just the fact that my wife and I arrive at parties in a better mood (no spats about missed turns or illegible street signs) has made the expense more than worthwhile.

It is a good "part time" GPS. If you want a "full time" GPS then go for a dedicated GPS product.

The only real criticisms:
- Advance warning about the need for an SD card would have been nice.
- The Zire 31 does not have a cradle so you have to plug in a cable every time you put it in the holder.
- The Zire 31 isn't loud enough on its own. I use a small set of external speakers. Another cable to plug in but it makes the voice instruction far more audible.

With a simple adaptor cable (not included) I connected the GPS mouse to my laptop. MapStore (included) then gives full navigation on a 1024 x 768 display. Very impressive ... but it won't fit on my dashboard.

jblackmore · Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 9:27 pm Post subject:

Frogman - my advice to you would be to look for the GPS Solution TE edition, which comes with a Tunsgten E organise, (more memory, and better screen), if you can find this package, it is a good deal.

Failing that, I don't think you can buy the GPS and software for a decent price, the Zire 31 GPS bundle is only £230, and the Zire 31 on its own runs about £70.

I have got this running reasonably well, by using SD card for maps, and by making special maps to keep the size down using mapstore as follows.

Select the whole of your country, but major roads only (no polygons), then select the area's you live in and travel to often and have full detail for those area's. By doing this I can get a map of around 70Mb.

Don't install any pictures or maps on the internal memory, they can all go on the SD card anyway.

This gives me about 10.5Mb free memory, and runs OK for me.

Also, download filez (its a free utility), and use this to copy your POI files (and PPOIS.POI which is the mapsonic internal poi file) into a backup directory on your SD card, this way if you have to hard reset, you can restore all your POIS by copying these files back to internal memory using filez again.

Soft resets using a paperclip will restore GPS connection when you hit the memory full problem, but should not lose any of your POI's or maps, so you can restart mapsonic re-enter your destinations (use POIS for your common destinations in a new POI group called A-Favourites) and you are back up and running.

The out of memory errors seem to relate to the size of the map file, and the amount of free memory, I don't have any hard rules, but it seems anywhere below about 8.5Mb internal memory, mapsonic won't even start without falling over, with a 30Mb map, around 10Mb memory is OK, and maps around 70-80Mb are OK with 10.5Mb internal memory.

Using a 512MB SD Card it is quite easy to setup several maps, each with major roads for the whole country, and one area with more detail (north, south, east, west), which is a good way to split them up - also you can exclude polygons which saves a lot of map space, and doesn't make too much difference to normal navigation.

I agree the Zire 31 package should include a SD card, but frankly, I don't think it should be sold at all, as the TE edition is about the same price (if you can find one), and includes the better PDA, and comes bundled with SD cards anyway !!!

I ordered one from globalpositioningsystems.co.uk but they screwed me, as after confirming my order (they had 6 in stock), they then failed to process my order for 4 days, by which time they had sold all their stock to people who had ordered after me, and won't do anything about this !!

jblackmore · Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 3:55 pm Post subject:

Just to update this, I have now been using Mapsonic on the Zire 31 bundle for a while, and after the initial problems I am now very happy with it.

Advice is to buy a 512Mb SD Card (they are about £24 from ebuyer.com)

Split your maps up so the maps are maximum 80Mb in size ,I have found with 10.5Mb internal memory free that maps up to this size cause me no problems.

I have several maps setup for UK, each has the full country main roads only (no polygons) which is about 10Mb, then a particular set of area's with more details.

99% of the time I am in the southwest of the UK, or a couple of other area's, so knowing this I made a map which has these area's with polygons and minor roads, this results in a 74Mb map.

I then created some 'spare maps' in case i ever get lost in an unusual part of the UK, I split the UK into North (above Nottingham), SouthWest, SouthEast and Ireland. These are all on my SD card in case I need them.

Don't try to put any maps on internal memory, other than for testing (I have a 109Kb map of my home town on there just for testing).

The POI functionality in MapSonic is really good, I have imported databases of speed camera's, hotels, and also added custom icons for places I go a lot and it works really well, only hassle is the POI's are not sync'ed to/from PC, but I have found a free utility called InnerBackup which takes a full backup of all my POI files (and everything else) onto the SD card, and can restore 'on the road' so this takes care of this.

For the cost of the Zire 31 bundle, and a 512Mb SD card I am really happy with the satnav functionality, and it has been reliable and useful to me since i got the hang of the map sizing !

Hope this is useful information to others.

James.

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