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IMPORTANT - Subscription renewals - recurring payments
Article by: Darren Griffin
Date: 3 Sep 2009
 A repeat reminder as some of you are still claiming ignorance of this! In August last year we introduced recurring PayPal subscription payments. By subscribing to our service you agree to enter into an recurring payment subscription service as clearly stated.
Our Terms & Conditions on the Subscription page state that we offer a no quibble refund so long as you have not downloaded data subsequent to the renewal payment being taken. We also provide a reminder via email a few days before renewal that an automatic payment will be taken and full guidance on cancellation is given.
Despite all of this a small but steady number of you are complaining that we have taken your money without permission. We have not helped ourselves! It is your responsibility to appraise yourself of our terms when subscribing. These terms are not hidden in small print but clearly stated on the subscription page in normal sized text.
If you have had a renewal taken and did not wish to continue then please contact us via our support system here. We will assist you in cancelling the subscription if required and so long as you have not downloaded post renewal we will refund the payment as our no quibble promise states. If however you choose to raise a PayPal complaint then we cannot do this as the payment is immediately quarantined by PayPal and so you will have to wait 7 days whilst they conclude their investigation before we can refund you.
In addition, a number of you are rather keen to retain your membership and are renewing manually ahead of time and then realising your mistake when the automatic payment occurs! If you are unsure whether you have a recurring subscription in place you can check from within your PayPal account as explained on the Subscription page. If you do then please DO NOT renew manually or you'll be paying twice.
And finally some new Lifers are ignoring our reminder to cancel any recurring payment with PayPal and then claiming surprise when a payment is taken (can you see a pattern here!).
Refunding over-payments is a time consuming and laborious process. If you have not done so yet, it will be a lot easier for all of us if you check first. PayPal customers can cancel auto-renewals from their PayPal account quickly and easily, there is little excuse for not doing so.
| Comments
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 Posted by mrfrank on Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:27 pm |
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Hi Darren,
I would not want to be pedantic but I had my subscription automatically renewed few days ago, as I first subscribed last year after 1st Aug 2008.
I did get a subscription expiration reminder via email, instructing me how to check if I had a recurring payment with paypal to avoid double payment, which I quote:
1. Sign-in to your PayPal account
2. Click on the Profile menu button
3. On the Profile menu page in the centre locate the section titled Financial Information.
4. Click on the Recurring Payments link to view your list of active payments.
I went to check and there was absolutely nothing on my paypal account under "profile - financial information - recurring payments".
I actually have NO recurring payments at all with paypal even now.
I decided to wait for my expiration of pocketgps subscription before renewing, just in case.
Guess what: the subscription has been renewed automatically.
In fact, my paypal account was charged bang on on the renewal date.
That is fine to me.
But, had I not waited and had I trusted the instructions above to check my recurring payments with paypal, I would have been charged twice.
So, PGPSW, do not necessarily blame the users. Perhaps, something else is wrong an your beliefs are not that correct. You should check this.
Bye.
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| Posted by Darren on Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:34 pm |
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Thank you, I will check this, but the issues that we have had were with members who had not checked and claimed ignorance of the system.
I will however look into this as it is our wish to make the subscription process and the cancellation procedures as clear as possible, we do not wish to hoodwink anyone.
Darren Griffin |
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| Posted by keefieh on Fri Sep 04, 2009 1:06 am |
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I've not had any money taken as a result of a misunderstanding, but just wanted to say I believe the people who run this site genuinely do it with the best intentions. On that basis I'm not worried. Yes, it's my responsibility to be aware of everything I get involved in, but if I make a mistake I'd want a sympathetic ear, which I'm sure I'd get, even if it didn't result in a refund. Let's face it, some people will always try it on (not that I'm accusing anyone here) and in order to maintain a good on-line presence you've got to be a bit cautious. Keep up the good work PGPSW!
Cheers,
Keef.
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| Posted by Darren on Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:08 am |
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I think that's my main beef. We strive hard to be as above board as possible and our Ts & Cs are clear and simple, a no quibble refund if YOU have made a mistake.
So I get very annoyed when the opening communication is 'you have taken my money without my permission, I shall be complaining to x, y & z but you'd better refund it now!'.
Yet more of the 'I can't possible be to blame so I'll have to find someone else to point the finger at'!
We're not sharks, we value our business and part of that is ensuring that you the customer received a good service and comes back each year. So we have nothing to gain by sneaking £20 out of your accounts. We have a great business from happy customers thank you!
Darren Griffin |
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| Posted by martoto on Fri Sep 04, 2009 12:41 pm |
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| Darren Wrote: | | We're not sharks, we value our business and part of that is ensuring that you the customer received a good service and comes back each year. So we have nothing to gain by sneaking £20 out of your accounts. We have a great business from happy customers thank you! |
Well, this sounds nice, but actually it is not matching with auto subscription renewal politics. Why should you make this if you really care for the customer convenience? I don’t like this ways of "auto taking my money" and I am sure I am not alone. Because after one year, if I do not need your service (for example: moved to another country) I have to remember to cancel manually subscription renewal. Why should you take my money in this way, if you truly do not want to sneak £20, just relaying on my absence of mind to cancel the process? In what way this makes your service better for the loyal customers?
The truth is if I like and still need your service, you definitely won't miss my money, because I'll pay for the next year as soon as I try to download latest database and realize that my subscription is lasted. Obviously, there is no need of auto renewal for the pleased customers. You need it for these ones that do not use your service anymore but forget to cancel payment for the next year. And please, do not talk about my fault of missing the “large text” in your Terms & Conditions. I read it but there is good chance to forget it for the next whole one year and you know this very well, isn’t it?
Regards.
PS. Do not misunderstand me, I am pleased customer and I think your service is very good at all. But this doesn’t make me like your auto subscription renewal politics as well.
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| Posted by Darren on Fri Sep 04, 2009 12:50 pm |
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| martoto Wrote: | | Well, this sounds nice, but actually it is not matching with auto subscription renewal politics. Why should you make this if you really care for the customer convenience? I don’t like this ways of "auto taking my money" and I am sure I am not alone. Because after one year, if I do not need your service (for example: moved to another country) I have to remember to cancel manually subscription renewal. Why should you take my money in this way, if you truly do not want to sneak £20, just relaying on my absence of mind to cancel the process? In what way this makes your service better for the loyal customers? |
Huh? You can cancel the auto-renewal at ANY time, either immediately after you subscribe or at any time in the following year.
We also remind you shortly before renewal giving you a further opportunity to cancel. And you don't have to use PayPa. On our subscription page we state PayPal is subject to auto-renwal and provide an alternative for those who do not wish to use it!
Sadly some are to lazy to bother reading or cannot accept they have some responsibility when making a payment to acquaint themselves with the terms.
| Quote: | | The truth is if I like and still need your service, you definitely won't miss my money, because I'll pay for the next year as soon as I try to download latest database and realize that my subscription is lasted. Obviously, there is no need of auto renewal for the pleased customers. You need it for these ones that do not use your service anymore but forget to cancel payment for the next year. And please, do not talk about my fault of missing the “large text” in your Terms & Conditions. I read it but there is good chance to forget it for the next whole one year and you know this very well, isn’t it? |
Sorry but you are wrong. Why would you not just cancel the subscription immediately after making payment if you are so against it? No risk of 'fogetting' anything then and as I have said, we REMIND you anyway. But even though we spoon feed you, many still claim ignorance. Blame culture in full swing.
There are many customers who value the auto-renewal. If you don't then opt out of it or use the alternative payment options, couldn't be simpler really.
Regards.
PS. Do not misunderstand me, I am pleased customer and I think your service is very good at all. But this doesn’t make me like your auto subscription renewal politics as well.[/quote]
Darren Griffin |
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| Posted by Darren on Fri Sep 04, 2009 12:50 pm |
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| martoto Wrote: | | Well, this sounds nice, but actually it is not matching with auto subscription renewal politics. Why should you make this if you really care for the customer convenience? I don’t like this ways of "auto taking my money" and I am sure I am not alone. Because after one year, if I do not need your service (for example: moved to another country) I have to remember to cancel manually subscription renewal. |
You can cancel the auto-renewal at ANY time, either immediately after you subscribe or at any time in the following year.
We also remind you shortly before renewal giving you a further opportunity to cancel. And you don't have to use PayPa. On our subscription page we state PayPal is subject to auto-renwal and provide an alternative for those who do not wish to use it!
Sadly some are to lazy to bother reading or cannot accept they have some responsibility when making a payment to acquaint themselves with the terms.
| Quote: | | You need it for these ones that do not use your service anymore but forget to cancel payment for the next year. And please, do not talk about my fault of missing the “large text” in your Terms & Conditions. I read it but there is good chance to forget it for the next whole one year and you know this very well, isn’t it? |
Sorry but you are wrong. Why would you not just cancel the subscription immediately after making payment if you are so against it? No risk of 'fogetting' anything then and as I have said, we REMIND you anyway. But even though we spoon feed you, many still claim ignorance. Blame culture in full swing.
There are many customers who value the auto-renewal. If you don't then opt out of it or use the alternative payment options, couldn't be simpler really.
Darren Griffin |
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| Posted by MaFt on Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:56 pm |
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please do remember the reason we added the auto-renewal: you lot asked for it! after a lot of people FORGOT to renew and could not access the database when they needed it for holidays etc etc and their payment ended up as an echeque delaying even longer...
the majority wanted it and we added it. the majority are still happy. even in the cases darren has brought to light there are a lot who admit they forgot and are polite when asking for the cancellation and refund but there are also a growing number of people accusing us of stealing money - that's just wrong... and simply not true!
MaFt
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| Posted by Alabama978 on Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:28 pm |
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Darren,
Like MrFrank I could not find any recurring subscription in the Profile menu, but here is how I did it...
Go to History and select all or a date range where you know you paid a subscription.
Once you see the history there will be an entry Pocketgpsworld, next column is called ACTIVE and next DETAILS
Click on DETAILS and you will get a new screen with all the details of the renewing subscription. Simply click on cancel subscription at the bottom of the screen and confirm it on the next page that appears.
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| Posted by Darren on Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:31 pm |
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We have updated our advice (as even PayPal's is contradictory!) as follows:
| Quote: | Sign in to your PayPal account, locate our subscription and cancel it (see below). This will cancel the recurring payment, without cancelling your membership with us.
You can make changes to subscriptions from your PayPal account as follows:
1. Log in to your account at www.paypal.co.uk
2. Click 'History' at the top of the page
3. Choose the 'Subscriptions' field to filter the account history
3a. If 'Subscriptions' is not showing then hover over the 'More filters', then 'Subscriptions and agreements' and then click 'Subscriptions'
4. Find the Subscription creation and click 'Details' |
Darren Griffin |
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| Posted by M8TJT on Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:44 am |
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Is it not possible to make auto renew optional? It seems that this would solve the problems that people have with it. Opt IN rather than go for it, THEN have to cancel if you don't want it. 
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