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Joined: Jul 21, 2004 Posts: 2718 Location: Chelmsford, UK
Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:01 pm Post subject: Motorways Trial New Speed Limit As Nearly Half Exceed 70 MPH
The Government has confirmed that British motorways will begin trialling a new 80 mph speed limit in an attempt to help motorists stay on the right side of the law.
According to reports from the Department for Transport, approximately 49% of British drivers flout the current 70 mph speed limit imposed on motorways, making them guilty of this criminal offence. The decision to raise the national limit to 80 mph is designed to reduce the number of speeding motorists whilst ensuring the regulations of the road match modern driving conditions.
The 80 mph, which will be trialled on sections of the M25, M1, M6, M20 and M42, will be condition-dependent, meaning that it will not become a universal introduction. In fact, only motorways with three or more lanes are expected to get the new limit - making the system match those used by other European countries.
Naturally, the change to the speed limit has raised some concerns over speeding; with some feeling this will encourage rule-breaking motorists to travel at an even faster rate on these roads.
Under the current system, police guidelines usually suggest that a margin of "10% plus 2 mph" is used with speed enforcement cameras - something which would allow drivers on 80 mph roads to travel at speeds of up to 90 mph without being detected.
In response to this, Road Minister Mike Penning explained that the average speed cameras, which will be used on the motorways to enforce the new regulation, are "ridiculously accurate" and explained that the speed enforcement on the 80 mph limit will be much more stringent than the standard guidelines.
Joined: Dec 27, 2006 Posts: 998 Location: South Lincs, UK.
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:45 am Post subject:
Currently 70 = 80 +
As "the speed enforcement on the 80 mph limit will be much more stringent than the standard guidelines." 80 will = 80
Therefore an enormous amount of our money will be spent on consultations, trials, signage, advertising and installation of "average speed cameras, which will be used on the motorways to enforce the new regulation" and the speed of the traffic doesn't change.
Motorists will be confused by differing speed limits on different motorways and possibly different speed limits in different weather or traffic conditions depending on the meaning of "condition-dependent".
Looks like a lot of expense for no gain. _________________ Paul
Joined: Apr 14, 2010 Posts: 1262 Location: West London
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:54 am Post subject:
Having increased the time allowed for maintenance companies to repair motorway/trunk road defects, they now are going to add a higher speed to the mix. Why the **** don't they put the money into fixing the roads before doing anything else?
Oh, no votes in it you think? _________________ Mike R [aka Wyvern46]
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Joined: Mar 01, 2005 Posts: 1513 Location: West Mids
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:24 am Post subject:
I read in a report some time ago the the average speed on a clear 70mph motorway was 82mph and on a 80mph / 130km/h it's 87mph. Basically, ignoring the actual limit, people feel like driving around 85mph. [citation required]
It looks like this will be on the motorways that already have variable speed cameras so it's probably just a quick software change (Yes I work in IT, I know what a software change can involve).
My biggest worry is that these roads have "unusual" rules anyway (eg hard shoulder running) that are often ignored. This will possibly mean that there will either be limit signs showing 24/7 or extra sign clutter explaining what the limit is when there's nothing showing.
Joined: Mar 26, 2004 Posts: 548 Location: East Midlands
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:09 am Post subject:
Currently +10% +2mph = infringment above 79mph, currently not strigently enforced.
Proposed 80mph strigently enforced i.e. infringment above 80mph.
Difference 1mph.
Isn't this just a politician's arse-about-face way of justifying a faster roll-out of speed cameras on motorways thus increasing revenue from motorists?
Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 14901 Location: Keynsham
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:03 pm Post subject:
If they're going to do it over existing average speed camera coverage areas, why not simply say "71mph = fine and points"? Alter the tolerance to zero and get the increased revenue for nothing?
I never did understand this tolerance thing anyway - if people drove within the speed limit as indicated by their speedometers, they'd never be speeding - if they are over the limit by 10% + 2, whatever the speed limit, their speedometers are reading A LOT MORE than the speed limit - so to be nicked on the motorway, their speedos must be reading at least 85. That's not just a slight lapse of attention or a slight creep - if they can't notice they are doing 15mph over the limit, they shouldn't be driving. They KNOW they are speeding and do so deliberately, i.e. a conscious decision to exceed the limit. _________________ Dennis
Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 14901 Location: Keynsham
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:11 pm Post subject: Re: Motorways Trial New Speed Limit As Nearly Half Exceed 70
RobBrady wrote:
The Government has confirmed that British motorways will begin trialling a new 80 mph speed limit in an attempt to help motorists stay on the right side of the law.
You've got to laugh . People are breaking the law, so don't enforce it, change the law!!!
Legalise robbery and burglary. Make murder only applicable for ten murders, not just a paltry single killing.
This silly move is actually a vote catcher - vote for us because we've increased the speed limits! _________________ Dennis
Joined: 30/12/2002 17:36:20 Posts: 4918 Location: Oxfordshire, England, UK
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:42 pm Post subject:
This would be a good opportunity to replace the National Speed Limit Roundels on motorways with a roundel showing the actual speed limit (for solo cars and motorbikes).
Once that's been done, the remaining National Speed Limit Roundels on other roads could be replaced by roundels showing the actual speed limit.
Regards, _________________ Robert.
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Joined: Apr 27, 2011 Posts: 121 Location: Northallerton North Yorkshire
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:56 pm Post subject:
DennisN wrote:
If they're going to do it over existing average speed camera coverage areas, why not simply say "71mph = fine and points"? Alter the tolerance to zero and get the increased revenue for nothing?
I never did understand this tolerance thing anyway - if people drove within the speed limit as indicated by their speedometers, they'd never be speeding - if they are over the limit by 10% + 2, whatever the speed limit, their speedometers are reading A LOT MORE than the speed limit - so to be nicked on the motorway, their speedos must be reading at least 85. That's not just a slight lapse of attention or a slight creep - if they can't notice they are doing 15mph over the limit, they shouldn't be driving. They KNOW they are speeding and do so deliberately, i.e. a conscious decision to exceed the limit.
I think that you'll find the reason for tolerance is that the police, at least the reasonable ones, realise that it is unsafe to constantly watch your speedomenter instead of watching the traffic and road in front. This will/may actually make the 80mph enforced without tolerance margin less safe than the current tolerated 80 mph. I am fortunate not to live anywhere near traffic camera enforcement on the motorway and dual carriageway systems and therefore can relax and take care of the traffic that I encounter. However, having travelled last week to Bath using the M42 to get me across the country, I was for ever checking my speedo to ensure that I didn't creep over the speed limit. I would also like to point out, as a recently retired highway engineer, that it is inappropriate speed that is dangerous and not just speed itself. I was diverted onto the M6 Toll road on the way back due to closure of the M1 in Nottinghamshire, and there was so little traffic on the deserted three lanes that I could safely have travelled well above the speed limit. And it cost me £5 into the bargin.
I do however agree that if the increase in speed limit comes with an expense of more traffic cameras, then I for one would say spend the money on more police cars and lets get the bad drivers of the road, something that cameras will never do.
Joined: Jun 04, 2005 Posts: 19991 Location: West and Southwest London
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:35 pm Post subject: Re: Motorways Trial New Speed Limit As Nearly Half Exceed 70
DennisN wrote:
Alter the tolerance to zero and get the increased revenue for nothing?
Er.. because it's not technically feasible?
DennisN wrote:
I never did understand this tolerance thing anyway - if people drove within the speed limit as indicated by their speedometers, they'd never be speeding - if they are over the limit by 10% + 2, whatever the speed limit, their speedometers are reading A LOT MORE than the speed limit - so to be nicked on the motorway, their speedos must be reading at least 85. That's not just a slight lapse of attention or a slight creep - if they can't notice they are doing 15mph over the limit, they shouldn't be driving.
Doesn't add up.
They are NOT doing 15 over the limit. As soon as you KNOW your speedo is wrong (or even if you don't!), then you are perfectly entitled to drive faster than it indicates if you still remain within the law.
DennisN wrote:
You've got to laugh . People are breaking the law, so don't enforce it, change the law!!!
That's common practice, and a very sensible thing IMHO.
No legislature likes to have it's laws ignored, because once people start to ignore a BAD law, they might feel less likely to obey a GOOD one. So the authorities regularly amend laws to follow public opinion.
And you speak as if laws were sent down from "on high" for us mortals to obey. They aren't, they are (supposedly) formulated by us, the people. If the majority of people ignore a law, then it arguably has no justification for being one. _________________ "Settling in nicely" ;-)
Joined: Jan 10, 2006 Posts: 585 Location: Guildford (Regrettibly)
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:19 pm Post subject:
Simple solution is to have dot matrix speed boards, after all LEDs are cheap as chips these days & last years. No good to metal thieves either!
You could then put the speed boards up which will show the max permitted speed for that "section" (between one junction & the next for simplicity's sake), so it would be similar to what they are on the M25 around Wisley.
If there's going to be a drop in speed limit in the next "section" of the motorway, then they set the preceding set of speed boards to show the speed within a triangle instead of a circular board with the speed to tell drivers that, the lower speed will be found at the commencement next section & that enforced (possibly by cameras) at the next set of speed boards.
Very simple & easy. _________________ Be alert.. This country needs more lerts.
Joined: 14/09/2002 20:56:18 Posts: 5231 Location: Surrey, United Kingdom
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:19 pm Post subject:
Privateer wrote:
This would be a good opportunity to replace the National Speed Limit Roundels on motorways with a roundel showing the actual speed limit (for solo cars and motorbikes).
Once that's been done, the remaining National Speed Limit Roundels on other roads could be replaced by roundels showing the actual speed limit.
Regards,
Why? What's wrong with what we have now? _________________ Tim
Joined: Mar 15, 2006 Posts: 3219 Location: Windlesham, Surrey
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:06 pm Post subject:
DennisN wrote:
. . . whatever the speed limit, their speedometers are reading A LOT MORE than the speed limit - so to be nicked on the motorway, their speedos must be reading at least 85.
Not necessarily, Dennis. I've just bought a Honda Jazz, and the speedo reads exactly the same as my TomTom. _________________ Anita
TomTom VIA 135 - App 12.075
UK map 1130.12368
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. People are breaking the law, so don't enforce it, change the law!!!
