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Which one
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Privateer
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kremmen wrote:
I think if I needed a Garmin for navigation I'd look at a camper or truck version. Surely they avoid side roads.

I have a Garmin Camper. Iíve experimented with different sized solo vehicles and different sized trailers/caravans settings whilst in Cornwall. IIRC really stupid sized settings slightly improved things but still the Garmin was not as good at routing as the TomTom. I think that one reason may be that TomTomís IQ Routes is much better than the Garmin equivalent.

My ultimate SatNav set up is the following:
TomTom iOS go mobile for routing
POIViewer iOS app for sending POIs to TomTom app
CamerAlert for speed camera warnings
Garmin SatNav for showing POIs on screen

However itís not a minimalist setup. So I have learnt to live without icons on the screen as TomTom routing and Traffic is slightly more useful. Although I would prefer to have POI icons on screen!

Regards,
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iPhone 6s Plus, iOS 14.0.1: iOS CamerAlert v2.0.7
TomTom GO Mobile iOS 2.3.1; TomTom (UK & ROI and Europe) iOS apps v1.29
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M8TJT
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Joined: Apr 04, 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I find difficult to understand is why the hell Garmin have not improved their routing. Peeps have been complaining about it since God was a lad.
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sussamb
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suspect mainly because it works Very Happy

Yes, I've had the occasional issue. Yes, I know others complain about some issues but the complaints are miniscule given the number of Garmin devices out there. I'm on quite a few forums and routing issues don't figure very much at all.
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pcaouolte
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sussamb wrote:
I suspect mainly because it works Very Happy

Yes, I've had the occasional issue. Yes, I know others complain about some issues but the complaints are miniscule given the number of Garmin devices out there. I'm on quite a few forums and routing issues don't figure very much at all.

Yes, it works in the sense that it will find a route from a to b. It doesn't find the fastest route even when you ask it to do that. It prefers little back routes which actually take longer.

If you look at the time to arrive on the Garmin just before one of it's silly shortcuts, then ignore the shortcut and let it recalculate the route it can actually give you an earlier arrival time!. Therefore it didn't give the fastest route available in the first place.

If you do a google search you can find forum posts going back many years complaining about the routing. I suspect that many people, just give up complaining and find an alternative. TomTom, Google Maps, Waze all give more sensible routing than Garmin.
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Kremmen
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even with my built in SatNav, that does a reasonable job, I don't follow it religiously.

Shortest route = slow urban side and B roads
Fastest route = boring motorways, often clogged

If I'm going through unknown areas I do some homework and stick to main A roads where possible, just using the display to assist with the correct exit at roundabouts and the like.

I only really follow the instructions just to find an address when within a few miles.
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sussamb
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes you'll find posts going back years but my point was it's not a major issue to most people if you look at the overall number of units sold. As for fastest route not being THE fastest route that's true of pretty much every satnav, which only have fairly puny processors on board, so they can't check out every possible routing option or you'd be sitting there while it finished the calculations. It's where on line apps score because they have huge processing power at their disposal.
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pcaouolte
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is an example. A route from Troutbeck Bridge to Ings in Cumbria.
The Garmin suggests this as the FASTEST route:
Start on the A591
Turn left onto an unnamed road with 20mph limit and 6í6Ē width restriction.
Turn right onto A592.
Turn tight left turn onto another unnamed road with a 6í6Ē width restriction follow this single track road for about 3 miles.
Turn right onto Mislet Brow.
Turn left onto the A591 that you were already on at the beginning of the route.

The Garmin says that this route takes 7 minutes. I don't think that anyone could drive the route safely in that time. Google Maps suggests that this route would take 10 minutes. I can just about achieve that if there are no obstructions.

If you ignore the first left turn onto the unnamed road and stay on the A591 the Garmin recalculates and gives a route that only takes 6 minutes (staying on the A591 all the way). The Garnmin therefore knew that a faster route was available but didn't choose it.

TomTom, Google and Waze all choose the faster A591 route.
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Kremmen
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's it in a nutshell.

Garmin have too many side roads/streets/lanes/tracks at the wrong average realistic speed.
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sussamb
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pcaouolte wrote:
The Garnmin therefore knew that a faster route was available but didn't choose it.


If only life were that simple. These articles illustrate why satnavs don't sometimes behave the way we'd like, we forget that to them there is no map, just a connection of nodes

https://www.techradar.com/news/car-tech/satnav/how-your-sat-nav-works-out-the-best-route-677682/2

http://blog.kdgregory.com/2011/12/how-gps-calculates-routes.html

Somehow they have to calculate what they believe is the fastest route in a short enough time that we're not left sitting not knowing which way to go. So they come up with the 'fastest' route with minimal effort, if you then 'help them out' in some way they might very well produce a 'faster' route, but they didn't 'know' that route before as they'd never calculated it.

Partly this is why they are now losing ground to Waze, Google etc. They use massive servers and can calculate far more routes in a far shorter time, so are better at giving you the 'fastest' route.

Satnavs though have other features that Google etc don't which is why many continue to use them, though that gap is closing fast.
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pcaouolte
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The point is that my 2007 vintage TomTom gets the route right.

Anyone moving from TomTom to Garmin should be aware how poor the routing is by comparison. I had heard the rumours of poor routing before moving from TomTom to Garmin but thought that it would just be occasional isolated incidents. It isn't. The Garmin routing is dreadful in comparison to TomTom in any part of the country where there are lots of little narrow back roads.

I moved from TomTom to Garmin so that I could continue to use the cameras from here. The speed camera warnings are also not as good on the Garmin as they were on the TomTom, the warnings are not queued like on the TomTom they get interrupted by direction instructions, the TomTom never did this.

Unfortunately I am left without a good solution to TomTom's lack of POI warnings.
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sussamb
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your experience though is very different to mine in that I'm rarely routed incorrectly, and TomTom forums also see folks complaining about poor routing. Fact is we're all different and what works for some doesn't work for others.
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pcaouolte
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fair enough. Very Happy
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jackbarry
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you to all those folks who have responded on this issue. I think that Dennis' idea may well be the best for me i.e. when my 750 expires I can get a TT with lifetime maps and traffic and use Cameralert on my phone.

Can I ask Dennis 1) Is there any particular TT model you would recommend? 2) How do you charge your smartphone in your car? (I don't use my mobile very much at present.) 3) I don't have Cameralert but I do have PGPSW camera subscription, so are you saying that I can try out Cameralert at present on my Motorola G4?
Fingers crossed, jack.
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Allan_whoops
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The other option is to get a second hand tablet and use Co-Pilot. It has a caravan/camper version. Even the car version allows you to weight the types of road you prefer.
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Privateer
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Jack,

Letís try and save you some money:

1. Download TomTom GO Mobile for Android and try it foc for 50 Miles a month. If you like it then subscribe at a later date for unlimited use. But the 50 Miles shoul allow you to try it.

Nb you may need an SD or micro SD card in your phone to load the app and itís maps.

TomTom GO Mobile Android shoul look and work similar to the current range of TomTom PNDs. You can allegedly load POIs onto TomTom Android to navigate to although the probably wonít show on screen.

2. Hopefully your vehicle will have a handy cigar lighter or usb charger. Use a usb lead to charge your phone and an optional cigar usb adaptor if necessary.

Donít forget a phone mount for your car. A cheap window sucker clamp should be ok but best to have a screen protector and case on phone because a windscreen sucker will fall off at some point especially when in a hot car and on a hot day.

3. Great news. You have a PGPSW sub. So download CamerAlert for free and then input your PGPSW user name an password and you shoul be ok for no extra charge!

Hope that thus helps. Thumbs Up

Apologies for typos as using iPhone.


Regards,
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iPhone 6s Plus, iOS 14.0.1: iOS CamerAlert v2.0.7
TomTom GO Mobile iOS 2.3.1; TomTom (UK & ROI and Europe) iOS apps v1.29
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