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Joined: Apr 18, 2006 Posts: 207 Location: Up North
Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2015 11:50 am Post subject: RANT
Bunty1948 wrote:
I assume that everyone who reads the threads on this forum has paid for the use of the camera database, in which case if they never ever speed, why buy the database?.
NO!
I no longer believe that the camera database is a good thing. I like PocketGPSWorld for its coverage of general topics round GPS and driving.
Too many times I have had drivers in front of me slow down (even when they are already below the speed limit) because they either see a camera or get warned about one. I'd rather they were competely hidden so that they didn't cause an accident. By all means have a brightly lit policeman up ahead to stop the offender.
On Wednesday, a van sped past me, then slowed sharply for an AVERAGE speed camera on the A1 at roadworks. As he had cut in abruptly I was glad he had created plenty of distance between us before slowing like that.
Too many times I see cars with the satnav stuck in the middle of the windscreen, blocking the driver's view to the left. In recent years, those obstructions are bigger as PNDs have grown to 6 inches and more. There are too many of these for them to all be route finders, so my conclusion is that they are there for the built in (or bought PGPSW) speed cameras.
The atttitude of drivers ought to be that the speed limit is the law of the land, however much we might dislike it. I try hard to stick to the limit, particularly the 30mph. I do not want to be the one causing an accident. If a speed camera could be anywhere, perhaps drivers would more consistently behave.
If you don't like the speed limits, contact your MP or councillor. Create or vote on a petition on egov.
I'd also like to see the removal of the requirement for a sign showing that there might be a speed camera on a particular stretch of road. It should be expected that there will be speed cameras anywhere. If you are on the road driving, you should expect to be prosecuted wherever you speed (or drive dangerously or carelessly).
Having said we should obey the law, it would be nice if we were helped to do so. I echo the comments about hidden signs and missing repeaters; ours are utter dross, and the reason I got caught once was doing 36mph on a road where the limit had been reduced to 30. I'd previously noted that all but one of the 40mph repeaters on this bypass were missing. The new initial 30mph sign was on the approach to a roundabout, hidden in the approach by the directions sign, and then missed at the roundabout because I was watching for traffic on my right so I could join the roundabout. However, my error, so whilst I wrote to the police and the council to complain about the siting (which was changed) I still got the points. The Police were apparently there because residents had complained that no-one was obeying the new limit! Symptoms cured not reason.
Conversely, our estate does NOT have a 30 sign where it leaves the main road, so legally it is a 40 limit!
20mph "zones" are another thing I have issue with. The law says they do not need repeaters, if the sign is close to a junction. However, that often means the sign is missed because you are concentrating on the junction. I understand why they are a good idea on housing estates, but I would like them better signed.
I have a Volvo which has a speed limit recognition camera, and it regularly misses certain changes from 40 to 30 and from 30 to 20 due to the siting of the signs. Properly sited signs are recorded and a boon as they show in the speedo. _________________ Samsung Galaxy Note 9, Nexus 5, Galaxy tab S3. Also use OSMAnd+, Sygic Mobile Maps, and OS maps app. Also "Great Britain Topo Maps" and "Old Maps". Don't use speed camera database as sticking to the limit is safer.
Joined: Apr 27, 2011 Posts: 121 Location: Northallerton North Yorkshire
Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 11:09 am Post subject:
I'm sorry but isn't there a contradiction here somewhere.
I see people slowing down when they see a speed camera at the last moment, which presumably means that they don't have a camera database or they would have known about the site and eased off a little earlier. Hiding the camera site would only make this worse. After all unless you really hide the camera to such an extent that it is completely invisible along with the operatives, someone will see it and almost certainly slam on the brakes. At least when I am warned about the presence of the camera site not only does it act as an extra timely reminder to check that I am within the speed limit but also prepare me for the guy that has just passed me and is about to take evasive action when he spots the camera.
I'd also like to point out that as you say the time when you got caught was due to sign clutter and the oft siting of a sign immediately approaching a roundabout. Surely the roundabout is acting as a traffic calming measure so the speed limit should commence after the roundabout, which was where I normally sited any that came within my remit.
I repeat what I said earlier, if we fell in line with the majority of European countries and made the national urban speed limit consistent throughout the land then all urban limits would be delineated by the city/town/village name plate and there would be no confusion or indeed need to litter the place with unnecessary street furniture. The only downside I could see would be that the brilliant PGPSW outfit would be rendered redundant overnight. So I guess that there is at least one reason for the continued clutter of inconsistent limits to keep the good boys in business.
Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:24 pm Post subject: Re: RANT
Fellwalker wrote:
Too many times I have had drivers in front of me slow down (even when they are already below the speed limit) because they either see a camera or get warned about one.
Ironically that is one of reasons I like the warnings - when it tells me there is a camera I know to expect sudden braking. But if you remove the cameras from view then I'd have to expect sudden braking every time you pass something that could hide a camera irrespective if they are below the limit already _________________ J.
Joined: Apr 18, 2006 Posts: 207 Location: Up North
Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 5:56 pm Post subject:
Bunty1948 wrote:
I'm sorry but isn't there a contradiction here somewhere.
I see people slowing down when they see a speed camera at the last moment, which presumably means that they don't have a camera database or they would have known about the site and eased off a little earlier. Hiding the camera site would only make this worse. After all unless you really hide the camera to such an extent that it is completely invisible along with the operatives, someone will see it and almost certainly slam on the brakes. At least when I am warned about the presence of the camera site not only does it act as an extra timely reminder to check that I am within the speed limit but also prepare me for the guy that has just passed me and is about to take evasive action when he spots the camera.
Maybe it seems that way. My experience of speed cameras in satnavs was that you got a few hundred yards warning. The very fact of that warning means that drivers slow down, THEN check their speed. Just as they do if they see a speed camera. It is a natural reaction for those drivers who have less experience. If we just assumed a speed camera could be anywhere, no one would need to suddenly slow down.
Bunty1948 wrote:
I'd also like to point out that as you say the time when you got caught was due to sign clutter and the oft siting of a sign immediately approaching a roundabout. Surely the roundabout is acting as a traffic calming measure so the speed limit should commence after the roundabout, which was where I normally sited any that came within my remit.
I repeat what I said earlier, if we fell in line with the majority of European countries and made the national urban speed limit consistent throughout the land then all urban limits would be delineated by the city/town/village name plate and there would be no confusion or indeed need to litter the place with unnecessary street furniture. The only downside I could see would be that the brilliant PGPSW outfit would be rendered redundant overnight. So I guess that there is at least one reason for the continued clutter of inconsistent limits to keep the good boys in business.
Sorry if I am teaching granny to suck eggs in putting the follwoing quotes in. I was just so surprised how difficult it was to find the ACTUAL law rather than interpretations thereof, that I have quoted sources.
We sort of do have a national urban speed limit - but depending on what you read, the definition varies. Typically British. According to the GOV web site, which I detest as being surface friendly but fact poor, it says "In a built up area", that is a 30mph limit. https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits However, the LAW says a street light lit area, and does not mention built up! That is a surprise to me, as I had always understood that 30 applied to any built up area with street lights. Perhaps it used to be so in the dim and distant past when I took my test.
An added problem is that that applies unless there is a different speed limit signposted. And the local toe rags steal repeater signs, or at least they used to do so for fun or for the metal content. Now that most signs are composite material and scrap prices are so low, that may reduce - but there is a huge lacking of repeater signs in general.
Part VI Speed Limits
81 General speed limit for restricted roads.
(1)It shall not be lawful for a person to drive a motor vehicle on a restricted road at a speed exceeding 30 miles per hour.
82 What roads are restricted roads.
(1) Subject to the provisions of this section and of section 84(3) of this Act, a road is a restricted road for the purposes of section 81 of this Act if—
(a)in England and Wales, there is provided on it a system of street lighting furnished by means of lamps placed not more than 200 yards apart;
(b)in Scotland, there is provided on it a system of carriageway lighting furnished by means of lamps placed not more than 185 metres apart and the road is of a classification or type specified for the purposes of this subsection in regulations made by the Secretary of State.]
Section 84 is "Speed limits on roads other than restricted roads" and is about special orders for different limits.
Speed limits outside street lit areas are covered by SCHEDULE 6 Speed Limits for Vehicles of Certain Classes. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/27/schedule/6
I do wish some of the caravan towing drivers knew the law.
I must say I was completely surprised here, as I had always thought that HGVs were limited to 56mph (90kph) and am amazed to find that over 7.5 tonnes, they are restricted to 40 on main roads, 50 on dual carriageways and 60 on motorways. I don't recall ever noticing those lower limits being complied with.
Thanks to Eagle Eye dates, I should say that on 6th April 2015 (Law passed Nov 14) these limits were increased to 50mph on main roads and 60mph on dual carriageways. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2014/3552/contents/made _________________ Samsung Galaxy Note 9, Nexus 5, Galaxy tab S3. Also use OSMAnd+, Sygic Mobile Maps, and OS maps app. Also "Great Britain Topo Maps" and "Old Maps". Don't use speed camera database as sticking to the limit is safer.
Last edited by Fellwalker on Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:41 am; edited 1 time in total
Joined: May 04, 2008 Posts: 752 Location: Knaresborough, North Yorkshire.
Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 9:56 pm Post subject:
Fellwalker wrote:
I ... am amazed to find that over 7.5 tonnes, they are restricted to 40 on main roads, 50 on dual carriageways and 60 on motorways. I don't recall ever noticing those lower limits being complied with.
Nope, these HGV limits were raised to 50 and 60 in England and Wales (albeit fairly recently).
Life is noticeably much better now (for example on the numerous single carriageway stretches which alternate with dual along the A66).
Now that we cars can do 50 (whilst held up behind all the cross-country heavies) it is well tolerable for the few miles until the next dual. Previously 40 was oh so tedious (for the cars AND for the heavies).
Joined: Apr 18, 2006 Posts: 207 Location: Up North
Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:45 am Post subject:
dales wrote:
Fellwalker wrote:
I ... am amazed to find that over 7.5 tonnes, they are restricted to 40 on main roads, 50 on dual carriageways and 60 on motorways. I don't recall ever noticing those lower limits being complied with.
Nope, these HGV limits were raised to 50 and 60 in England and Wales (albeit fairly recently).
Life is noticeably much better now (for example on the numerous single carriageway stretches which alternate with dual along the A66).
Now that we cars can do 50 (whilst held up behind all the cross-country heavies) it is well tolerable for the few miles until the next dual. Previously 40 was oh so tedious (for the cars AND for the heavies).
Dales.
Thanks, didn't spot that. So, for a whole 6 months they've been allowed to drive at that higher speed. Prior to that all the ones I've followed have done 56mph everywhere. _________________ Samsung Galaxy Note 9, Nexus 5, Galaxy tab S3. Also use OSMAnd+, Sygic Mobile Maps, and OS maps app. Also "Great Britain Topo Maps" and "Old Maps". Don't use speed camera database as sticking to the limit is safer.
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