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Dummy Speed cameras
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capers
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Joined: Jul 23, 2007
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Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:08 pm    Post subject: Dummy Speed cameras Reply with quote

Hello all,

I appretiate that Telmap is a free service, but .................!

I recently used Telemap to navigate a route from a rural location in Northamptonshire to an address in Birmingham (UK), which took me along the M40 & M42 motorways.

I lost count of how many times the satnav advised me of a dummy speed cameras, all of which were not there (or signs of ever being there) and most of which were on the motorway.

It got that bad, that I turned off the audio until I reached the outskirts of Birmingham, where I re-activated it.

Also, the over-head gantry cameras at the junction if the M40 & M42 were listed as dummy cameras - which they're not!, they are very real and active!

As I mention, I know its a free service, but it drove me to distraction leading me to turn it off!!

Wots going on?
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Andy_P
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Dummy Speed cameras Reply with quote

capers wrote:

Also, the over-head gantry cameras at the junction if the M40 & M42 were listed as dummy cameras - which they're not!, they are very real and active!


Well, they are all dummy cameras according to the PocketGPSWorld Camera Database too....



But the situation may have changed, what makes you think they are real?
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capers
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They are linked to the variable speed limit cameras that control the flow of traffic on the M42 near Solihull and the NEC exit

But what about all these non existant dummies that are all over the place?
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mikealder
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most of the boxes that look like cameras are simply empty boxes which is why they are called "Dummies" you won't get caught by an empty box and as its not a camera it has no place in a Speed Camera Database.

The dummy markers on the map are simply there to act as an aid meaning we know there is a box at that location but no camera (even if the empty box "looks" like a camera) - Mike
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capers
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mikealder wrote:
The dummy markers on the map are simply there to act as an aid meaning we know there is a box at that location but no camera (even if the empty box "looks" like a camera) - Mike


I'm afraid that I have to disagree. The dummy markers on the map are, I believe, are in error.

I travelled the M40 & M42 and was advised of about 10 dummy cameras. Most of the locations were Telmap said there was a dummy camera, was simply a straight piece of motorway, no gatso's or road markings, no overhead gantry (apart from the jct of M40 & M42), no bridges, no laybays or service areas, no roadside furniture that looks anything like a speed camera - there was nothing!

As someone who's work is connected with the highways, I know that there is no way that the police (or any other agency) would deem these location as safe to use to enforce traffic speed checks at the roadside with anything other than un-manned enforcement equipment.

If these locations were at the site of previous roadwork's, which is possible, then they need to be amended to remove the location as that of a speed enforcement location or dummy camera.

It is also possible that there is sub-surface monitoring equipment installed at these locations, but this type of equipment would not meet 'home office approval' for use in the detection of speeding offences so it should not be listed as a dummy camera.

I only mention all the above because I want to do what I can to asist you improve the excellent service offered by Telmap.
Most of the time, I know where I need to navigate to, but on the occasion that I don't, I have no hesitation in using Telmap as my first choice of navigation aid - so much so, that I have sold my old satnav.
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mikealder
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why your software is warning of you dummy cameras is down to the supplier of the software, I don't get warnings for the dummy cameras using the PGPSW database on the devices I choose to install the data to - Mike
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capers
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know - that why I came to add a post here as I thought this was the place to advise on issue with Telmap.
If I'm wrong, I appologies, but in the past, any issues I've had with Telmap, they have been sorted here.
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M8TJT
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mikealder wrote:
I don't get warnings for the dummy cameras using the PGPSW database on the devices I choose to install the data to
Is it safe to assume that the OP is using the PGPSW camera database and has no other third party database installed on his device?
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capers
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

M8TJT wrote:
Is it safe to assume that the OP is using the PGPSW camera database and has no other third party database installed on his device?


Assumption correct, other than BB Maps
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M8TJT
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just checking mate. Very Happy Data from other sources can be a bit variable Rolling Eyes

MaFt. Are dummys included in the download data? I assumed that they weren't
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Daggers
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Correct - dummies aren't included in the database downloaded from PGPSW. I travel along the M42 nearly every day, (J5 - J7), and I only get warned of one camera location in each direction (immediately north of J6).
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MaFt
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dummy's are not included with the downloads because they're not cameras. the markers are shown on the submission map in abid to reduce the number of submissions we get sent in.

these particular dummies are spot on as we have had it confirmed many times by a local verifier with detection equipment and also from the company that handles the cameras on behalf of the Highways Agency.

all of this is academic though as the original poster is referring to the Telmap database and not ours.

MaFt
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Andy_P
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hang on... there's some confusion here, and two different issues getting combined when they shouldn't.

Firstly, Capers, you said:
capers wrote:
M8TJT wrote:
Is it safe to assume that the OP is using the PGPSW camera database and has no other third party database installed on his device?

Assumption correct, other than BB Maps


but MaFt says:
MaFt wrote:

all of this is academic though as the original poster is referring to the Telmap database and not ours.


Now, I think MaFt is correct and the unit is using Telmap's OWN database.
So there's not a lot we non-Telmap users can do to help you with the issue of false alerts of dummy cameras, Capers.
Hopefully another Telmap owner will post a reply with their thoughts and findings.

---------------------

But secondly, on the point of whether the gantry cameras are real or not... The reason I replied and showed a map of the dummy cameras logged in the PGPSW database was that you had insisted that those cameras were in fact real and working.

We dispute that assertion, so do you have any hard evidence to the contrary which would cause us to change our opinion? (as we would love to hear it!).
That question has nothing to do with your problem of false alerts on straight roads with no gantries. Those cameras/dummies are NOT in the PGPSW database.

Can you help us out with that second issue?
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capers
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This has gathered some interesting replies - which is great to see people wanting to help.
Please allow me to clarify a point or two.

I downloaded the BIS version of Telmap X5 onto my BB 9800 - which database it uses I can't be 100% sure about, all that I do know that it uses the one that Telmap downloads via the BIS data link.

The vast majority of the dummies indicated were on the M40, not the M42; but at the Jct of M40 & M42, Telmap advised that the gantry cameras were dummies.

I have again done the same route and got the same indication (as best I can remember) so I am wondering whether something has become corrupt in the data transfer.
As a step to remidy, I will remove Telmap from my phone and re-install to see what happens.
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M8TJT
The Other Tired Old Man
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It does seem that the false alerts that you are getting is coming from the Telmap speedcam data as isuspect that unles you explicitly download our data you won't get it.
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