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Apple WWDC - New iPhone Today?
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MikeB
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gatorguy6996 wrote:
Hey Mike, how do I get on your "staff". I'm sure you could use a willing NA rep. Smile Half-kidding of course.

Right I am coming out to interview you in August, and then again in October...
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MikeB
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bedbug wrote:
Navigon rumoured to be preparing to release MobileNavigator for iPhone by the end of the month Here.

Our Navigon MobileNavigator press release is here.
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Mike Barrett
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bedbug
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MikeB wrote:
Our Navigon MobileNavigator press release is here.

Now that's PROPER coverage - no less than we expect from our fave GPS team.

MikeB wrote:
Alternatively it could just be that nobody really knows

Knowing the manufacturer in question, that's most likely the case!
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gatorguy6996
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MikeB wrote:
gatorguy6996 wrote:
Hey Mike, how do I get on your "staff". I'm sure you could use a willing NA rep. Smile Half-kidding of course.

Right I am coming out to interview you in August, and then again in October...


And I was so looking forward to a five-day fully paid vacation in London. Clap

Laughing Out Loud
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SpeedCam
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Happy I have to say this is a very good announcement, and even if you don't plan on using the TomTom, the mount it is a good car mount just for for hands free... Thats the positive bit....

As people have already said, the mount is not just a piece of plastic, but incorporates GPS, Power & audio eletronics so it's not going to be cheap. The compare this to the existing TMC Active mount @ £49 and the various Brodit mounts @ £30+ each and I think this mount may cost between £80-£100 I'm hoping I'm wrong....

Now add the cost of TomTom with European mpas, the current PDA version costs £90, in total I think we'll be looking at between £150-£200 for the complete package which seems very expensive.

Compare this with the new low end products and the XL IQ Live and it's going to be difficult to justify the cost?

What do others think, what would be the most people are prepared to pay, hopefully the other competition will mean the price is kept low.
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bedbug
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SpeedCam wrote:
What do others think, what would be the most people are prepared to pay, hopefully the other competition will mean the price is kept low.


I paid £129 for Nav 5 with the TT Bluetooth receiver, for my Palm. Given that I'm supplying the processor (the iPhone), I don't think it should cost more than the same £50-60 to download the app and mapping, and perhaps a further £65 for the mount - so something around £130 would be acceptable.

But as desirable as this all is, there are so many questions:

1. Do we get to download maps? I do not want to depend on a network connection for mapping (especially when roaming) or any form of continuous validation process.
2. Do we get Traffic (maps without are pretty pointless, IMHO); yes, I know that would be network reliant, but at least I can control it.
3. Will it provide support for external POIs. PGPSW's safety cameras database has become as much a part of driving for me as the maps themselves.
4. What kind of commitment are TT making to the mobile market (iPhone in my particular case). I'd have bought Nav every 12 months if I could have, yet thanks to TT my current maps are 3 years old (the data has cobwebs instead of major new roads!). I need to know TT aren't going to stitch me up twice.
5. Where's the catch? There's always one with TT!

{edit} Oh, and one more thing - how will the software handle phonecalls - The Navigon release already talks about returning to mapping after the call is ended - that won't do - imagine that going around Marble Arch!!!
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Darren
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speedcam wrote:
Compare this with the new low end products and the XL IQ Live and it's going to be difficult to justify the cost?

Of course such a solution would never stand up to direct comparison but that isn't really the point here and if price were the only deciding factor then very few iPhones would ever have been sold in the first place.
bedbug wrote:
{edit} Oh, and one more thing - how will the software handle phonecalls - The Navigon release already talks about returning to mapping after the call is ended - that won't do - imagine that going around Marble Arch!!!

Get used to it, that is how it will have to work as the iPhone does not multi-task with 3rd party apps.

As for price. whilst I'm fairly certain it will be a maps on-board solution as I write this I am beginning to wonder if the app might be wholly subscription based rather than subject to a one off cost. That way you get access to the latest map data but only retain access to the app itself so long as your subscription is active?

As for the mount, I'll take a wild guess at £75.00.

This is a new possibility with OS3.0 and could be an interesting model.
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MikeB
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SpeedCam wrote:
Very Happy I have to say this is a very good announcement, and even if you don't plan on using the TomTom, the mount it is a good car mount just for for hands free... Thats the positive bit....

As people have already said, the mount is not just a piece of plastic, but incorporates GPS, Power & audio eletronics so it's not going to be cheap. The compare this to the existing TMC Active mount @ £49 and the various Brodit mounts @ £30+ each and I think this mount may cost between £80-£100 I'm hoping I'm wrong....

I am speculating here, but I doubt that the GPS in the mount would be of any use to anyone apart from TomTom, it is a bespoke bit of kit and it is unlikely that TomTom would make it easy for one of their competitors to use the functionality. It certainly wont be part of the core location technology.

The same is also possible, though less likely, with the speakerphone/external speaker. I would expect that to work with all applications.
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bedbug
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darren wrote:

Get used to it, that is how it will have to work as the iPhone does not multi-task with 3rd party apps.

As for price. whilst I'm fairly certain it will be a maps on-board solution as I write this I am beginning to wonder if the app might be wholly subscription based rather than subject to a one off cost.


I'm curious to know what TT's relationship with Apple is - if it's 'partner', as they're doing with Google Maps, there may be an opportunity for a little multi-tasking (you can now embed data served by Google Maps into other applications).

There was a game previewed that could access iPod music files, so perhaps they're opening up a little access; the phone would be the most obvious function to allow 3rd party apps to manage; what if a phone call came in during any of the medical device functions they also demonstrated? They need to be able to provide solutions for this. I would have thought, given Apple's apparent concern about safety and TBT navigation, that a call interrupting safe passage would be something they'd want to mitigate against.

The rule regarding in-app purchases is, I believe, that you can only provide this via an app that has been paid for via the app store - free apps cannot provide in-app purchases. I expect a small fee, say £10 for the app, and then the usual charges for mapping, possibly as a subscription.
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gatorguy6996
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darren, I had speculated and posted elsewhere that the app itself would be subscription based, which makes emminent sense to me and would present TomTom's pricing in the best possible light. You're the first to somewhat agree with me.

It would give them the marketing advantage of a lower initial out-of-pocket cost compared to some other one-time purchase solutions. Many potential buyers would likely be tempted by an arrangement that lets you try the software and discontinue if it's not for you. Of course many of those would either not get around to canceling or better yet find they really like what TomTom offers and contine the subscription. Overall probably more expensive than any one-time purchases but looks cheaper on the face, and yielding the greatest return for TomTom. Certainly the way I would approach it.
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bedbug
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gatorguy6996 wrote:
Darren, I had speculated and posted elsewhere that the app itself would be subscription based, which makes emminent sense to me and would present TomTom's pricing in the best possible light. You're the first to somewhat agree with me.

Nothing wrong with the idea, just it's not allowed:

Apple iPhone 3.0 SDK Agreement wrote:
3.3.17 Only Paid Applications (which require You to enter into a separate agreement with Apple (Schedule 2)) may use the In App Purchase API. In addition:...

Sorry, but there would have to be at least a token payment Crying or Very sad

Which means TT enter a contract based on application code (not just mapping - as they did with Nav 7 for PDA).

Of course, if they're iPhone partners, then the SDK rules can be bent.
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gatorguy6996
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bypass that with the app at one fee, maps and associated data by subscription. Any reason that doesn't cover Apple's rules?

I'd just about place a wager that there will be a subscription involved in using TomTom's solution.
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Darren
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bedbug wrote:
I'm curious to know what TT's relationship with Apple is - if it's 'partner',

They are nothing more than a launch partner.
Quote:
There was a game previewed that could access iPod music files

That is not multi-tasking though.
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bedbug
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gatorguy6996 wrote:
Bypass that with the app at one fee, maps and associated data by subscription. Any reason that doesn't cover Apple's rules?

Nope, think that will work. The only other thing is that all payments must pass via the Apple Store, with Apple taking a cut - you can't purchase in-app elsewhere (for example from TomTom's own store). You also can't have an account of some kind elsewhere, and spend a pre-existing balance. That's my understanding, at least, so there's a little complexity to negotiate, but no reason it can't all be done.

This would allow support for TT's existing map update subscription service, and you'd automatically get new mapping as you sync your iPhone when it became available. I hope this doesn't mean that use of maps would become disabled though (at the moment there's no guarantee TT will exist in 12 month's time, for example).

Note that Apple have never prevented access to external data; I have password, dictation, bookmarking and storage apps that allow syncing with desktop applications and the cloud, so there's no reason that the TT application can't incorporate 3rd party POIs, but that would have to be developed specifically by TT.

There's potential with all this for TT to provide a really fair and good service to customers. While I can't really fault their products, their business practices often leave a lot to be desired - I just hope they get this right (from the customer's perspective).

Do note that all the discussion surrounding Apple's own rules depends on whether they hold TT as a standard developer, or treat them as strategic partners and change the rules as they see fit; in the latter case anything becomes possible.
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mikealder
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If they thought this through the best approach would be application for free along with a single free "taster map" this would attract new users to the overall TomTom Navigation solution (where have we seen this cost model used before?? the good ole PDA). Once a user is happy that it works in their local area they get the option to purchase full maps and possibly bolt on services.
I guess we will have to await the true product launch to work out what will be on offer, have TomTom even got a price strategy for this thought through as yet? - Mike
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