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accidents cost metropolitan police £13m
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klystron_generator
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 8:34 am    Post subject: accidents cost metropolitan police £13m Reply with quote

Quote:
The Metropolitan Police force paid out £13m in compensation for traffic accidents involving its officers in the past five years, it has been revealed.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6241400.stm
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GJF
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Is this a case of continuous incompetence, or have the ambulance chasers found a new cow to milk?

London Assembly Conservative policing spokesman Richard Barnes


By "ambulance chasers" he is referring to us road users, when "attacked" by a bad police driver!

That comment is a bit rich, from a police force, that benefits from and helps the Government, squeeze the motorist so tight, that he has to spend a large amount of time looking for camera's with "it's hand out for money", than being able to concentrate on his/her driving.

I'm sure this is going to open up a "can of worms" but -
I feel that there is a proportion of police drivers, when behind the wheel believe they are a law unto themselves, and drive recklessly knowing that although they might have a weak excuse, they have the police force to hide behind!

I'm not sure as to the different levels in police driving and hope that 999tommo as an experienced police driver can inform us. With these various driving levels, what can that individual driver do or drive, or is it a case of any police driver can be involved in any senario with a minimum of expertise.

I like many drivers can give tales of bad police driving, for instance being almost run off the M25, whilst passing the M11 slip road, a police driver came from "no-where" at high speed (no lights or tones) and cut me up to get into the turn off with about a car space left, and this was in the wet.
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klystron_generator
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GJF wrote:
I'm not sure as to the different levels in police driving and hope that 999tommo as an experienced police driver can inform us

I like many drivers can give tales of bad police driving


true but you'd think that traffic cops should be la creme de la creme

but my pet hate at the moment is the rapid response paramedics in their powerful ovlovs which look like police cars at first glance but these drivers seem to have less regard for other road users than police drivers

perhaps 999tommo could also shed some light on the different levels of driving with other emergency services too (i think his pet hate is fire tenders)
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Skippy
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sigh. What utter nonsense from the Green party....

Green Party member Jenny Jones wrote:
If you lose a robber because you refuse to drive too fast, but you also do not kill or injure somebody in the process, then I think that is a worthwhile trade.


What if that person was a murderer? Then they went on to kill some more people? Would that be ok by you, Jenny?

What about the Ambulance/Fire services? Should they be allowed to speed? How many lives would be lost because of the slow response?

Green Party member Jenny Jones wrote:
There are no excuses for driving too fast


What about this excuse: "I was trying to apprehend a dangerous criminal?". What planet is this woman on?

Let's put it in context too. The Met police drove 63 million miles last year, so over 5 years this could amount to around 300 million miles. They paid 13 million in compensation over 5 years which sounds like a staggering amount but it actually amounts to just 4 pence per mile traveled...

So what does the Green Party suggest? Don't let the police speed? Take away their cars and give them all bicycles? I'd love to know....
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GJF
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

skippy wrote:
Quote:
So what does the Green Party suggest? Don't let the police speed? Take away their cars and give them all bicycles? I'd love to know....


8O What you don't know? 8O

This is the Latest Police Vehicle I can't wait to see their faces when told to go in pursuit! Embarassed
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Darren
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am Police Advanced Driver Trained albeit 18 years ago so can make some comment here. The training is some of the best in the world but what it can't do is cure the adrenalin issue that can occur in a response scenario.

Ever watched one of the fly on the wall Police programmes and felt your heart racing and your stress level rising when some tearaway is making a run for it in a stolen car? Well magnify those effects by an order of magnitude and then put yourself behind the wheel of the response car! It can be controlled, indeed has to be controlled to ensure safety but it's very difficult.

In my day (now I'm sounding old) there were many different levels of driver classification with the basic driver not even being permitted to employ lights and sirens except when stationary. These were followed by van driver, area car and then traffic. Only response and traffic had what could amount to advanced driver training.
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klystron_generator
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GJF wrote:
skippy wrote:
Quote:
So what does the Green Party suggest? Don't let the police speed? Take away their cars and give them all bicycles? I'd love to know....


8O What you don't know? 8O

This is the Latest Police Vehicle I can't wait to see their faces when told to go in pursuit! Embarassed


in my area police already have bicycles and this scheme seems to be a success

Quote:
T3 personal mobility vehicle, is designed to allow officers to cover a greater amount of ground than on foot.

It has a top speed of 25mph, a range of more than 20 miles and is equipped with a police siren and red and blue flashing lights.


a range of 20 miles isn't all the great...a few miles away from base and a few miles back to base only leaves a short distance to actually do any patrolling not forgetting that lights and siren will flatten the battery even quicker

this vehicle will be confined to town and city centres and after the first red faced officer knocks on a door to ask if he can recharge his vehicle it will be an embarrassment

will it be used on the road or the pavement Question either way it will be a hazard
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Darren
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's no way that'll ever be approved! As an electric vehicle it'd need to be registered for road use as well? It couldn't be legally used on the pavement.
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Skippy
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

klystron_generator wrote:
This is the Latest Police Vehicle
It has a top speed of 25mph, a range of more than 20 miles and is equipped with a police siren and red and blue flashing lights.


Darren wrote:
There's no way that'll ever be approved! As an electric vehicle it'd need to be registered for road use as well? It couldn't be legally used on the pavement.


The Police can do what ever they want though, if the choose to ride it on a foot path, through a park or into a pedestrianised shopping area then that's up to them (subject to them behaving in a reasonable manner with it).

The big problem is that it costs over 4 grand, only does 25 MPH and only has a range of 20 miles. Compare that to a cheap 125cc scooter which costs half the price, does 60 MPH and has a range of over 100 miles.
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Darren
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skippy wrote:
The Police can do what ever they want though, if the choose to ride it on a foot path, through a park or into a pedestrianised shopping area then that's up to them (subject to them behaving in a reasonable manner with it).

You don't honestly believe that do you?
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Stargate2006
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What was wrong with them walking?

Time to go a Gym to get fit and lose the fat as well Laughing

No sweet bar for you copper Sad
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GPS_fan
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good to see you still here Stargate.

Where I live there are Police officers on bicycles and:

1) they are seen patrolling
2) they have a greater range than 20 miles
3) they don't have to knock on your door to ask if they can recharge their bike

I doubt that the T3 'Pooper Scooter' will result in any more officers being seen patrolling the community

Ironically, they share a base with the Police spotter plane - so you have the fastest and slowest 'vehicles' in the county sharing facilities
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FrequentFlyer
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darren wrote:
'As a Van driver he would not necessarily have had any advanced training. Often all that happens is a quick check drive and instruction on when to use lights and siren etc.'

I am surprised...you mean even 'police van drivers' heading out on an emergency don't come under the police 'advanced driving' course...then who does ? No wonder there are so many police involved accidents.

Darren Wrote:
'There's no legal requirement for any Blue Light user to have advanced training but force guidelines normally require some level of assessment and impose limits on what can be used and when.'

Sorry Darren but I thought it appropriate to post this here as well.
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999tommo
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just came across this thread and saw my name mentioned twice. Am I the only serving advanced Police driver out of the 200,000 members ??

I can only speak for my force, but as far as driver training goes, here it is.

Basic Driving Course
Authorises the use of a low powered Police vehicle to use from A to B at speed limits only and without blues & twos. Blue lights can be used when stationary for safety (eg, accident scene).

Standard Driving Course
Authorises the use of general purpose vehicles (Pandas) with specific training in blues and twos. No specific speed restriction, but training to around 90mph on open roads.

Intermediate Driving Course
Authorises the use of high performance vehicles (Traffic Cars) with the restriction that it cannot be driven without being accopanied by an advanced driver. No specific speed restriction, but training to maximum capability of vehicle & driver.

Advanced Driving Course
Authorises as above with no accompanyment. Drivers pass with Class 1 or Class 2 certificates. Class 1 is a pass of 85% or more in both practical driving and exams. Class 2 is a pass of more than 74% but less than 85%.

Class 1 drivers and Class 2 with at least 83% can also do Security Escort Training Course, which if they pass, allows them to escort VIPs.

We don't do courses in driving like plonkers. That just comes natuarally to some Police officers. Wink

All of our vehicles are now fitted with AVLS (Automatic Vehicle Locating System) which records their speed, position, whether lights and sirens are on etc, so if we have an accident, the data can be analysed to see if we did anything wrong.
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DennisN
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Large expense??
How much did your last accident cost you? My pheasant cost me £350, the deer cost me £1,350 (not considering that neither of them paid any compensation for loss of earnings - self employed whitevanmen without a white van don't earn).

So if my pheasant and deer had been police drivers at fault, I'd have been looking to claim not only the above amounts, but also loss of earnings.

The Met figures for last year worked out at an average payout of £1,242 per claim. Comparatively small beer.

Bandwagons spring to mind.
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