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BERT_UK
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Joined: Sep 15, 2005
Posts: 45
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 Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 10:46 am Post subject: |
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| dougconran wrote: | | Don't be too harsh on Garmin, I think they've done a really good thing here. They certainly weren't under a legal obligation to provide updated maps and I don't think they were under a moral one either... |
I concur with all of Doug's points. A free updated V8 map will be hugely appreciated, but I also don't think Garmin were ever obliged to provide it. To be fair everyone could have checked the Garmin website to see the release date of the current V7 maps and draw their own conclusions as to whether the age of the maps was acceptable.
Unfortunately in today's world everything moves on at a rapid pace. That version 6 of software you just bought 2 months ago, sorry it's version 7 now. That brand new washing machine? Sorry, outdated too - this one spins faster. Bought an iPod mini? Sorry, it's Nano's now. This doesn't make it right, but I think the competition between companies to produce better, cheaper, faster devices for us the consumer also has the unfortunate side effect that perhaps sometimes the consumer is perceived to lose out in some way.
I have been extermely pleased with my i3 and would recommend it (and Garmin) to anyone. If Garmin do provide free V8 map updates then I'll be a customer for life and sing their praises from the rooftops :D as there are very few companies that would do something like this. |
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BERT_UK
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Joined: Sep 15, 2005
Posts: 45
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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| crazylegs wrote: |
I don't think so somehow, what about those people who do not have access to the internet or even know how to turn a computer on let alone navigate to a website.... |
OK, I agree with you with regards to the general population. I was more thinking along the lines of people in the forum complaining about the V7/V8 updates. Taking that they are on this forum they should fulfill the "turn on computer" and "navigate to a website" part.
| crazylegs wrote: |
And for your information when i buy a product and a brand new newly released product at that, i expect at least a little time before the product gets outdated not 5 days.....  |
The product isn't outdated yet though. V8 doesn't exist as a release yet. Where did the 5 day bit come from?
What are Garmin (and other GPS manufacturers) to do? Assuming maps are updated approximately yearly there will always be products released that fall close to a map update slot. What is an acceptable cut off point? If V8 is released in NOV 05 that's approximately 3 months from the release of the i3 (assuming a Sept release of the i3), if it goes into JAN 06 then that's a 5 month gap! There is no confirmed V8 release date yet but that hasn't stopped people stamping their feet and complaining they've been hard done by and want the next update free.
| crazylegs wrote: |
When you buy a product it must be fit for the purpose it was intended for, if the maps are so out of date that they are updated within a few weeks of a products release then this is not the case and trading standards dictate you have a right to a refund on that product... 
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Agreed, but this is open to interpretation on being fit for the purpose.
The maps are less than a year old (V7 Nov 2004), which would make the maps only about 9 months old when the i3 was released. I wouldn't say that this makes it unfit for the purposes of a navigation aid. The maps are relatively recent. If they were based on some old cartographer's of yore with warnings such as "There be dragons" then it would be unfit. OK, that's taking it a bit far, a couple of years out of date could be considered unfit.
I've used the Sales of Goods Act to bash some heads together in the past, but also think that companies are often unfairly berated for not living up to some unrealistic demands of their customers.
I think I'm just asking for a bit of perspective and reasoning. People have been quick to grab their pitch forks and storm Garmin HQ in a mob mentality and labelled the i3 as useless without neccessairly seeing the whole (reasonable) picture.
| crazylegs wrote: |
Thats why Garmin have had a rethink and are going to offer the v8 maps for all early adopters of the i3...Its just not worth the hassle of fighting it with there customers as they know the customers are right in expecting the update free of any charge.....
On a lighter note well done Garmin for seeing sense....And putting the customer first..... |
I don't know what Garmin's reasoning on the V8 updates were. Maybe there was always going to be a free upgrade path? There has been mixed responses from Garmin and various ideas floating around so it's hard to really know for certain. Whatever their reasoning a free V8 upgrade would be extermely good customer service. |
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Skippy
Pocket GPS Verifier
Joined: 24/06/2003 00:22:12
Posts: 2946
Location: Escaped to the Antipodies! 36.83°S 174.75°E
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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I think there should be a bit of wait and see here. People are complaining a lot about a product which hasn't been released yet. Don't get too excited about the "latest maps" either - the v7 maps contain errors which are > 5 years old. 
As for the question of why Garmin release new maps a few weeks/months after releasing a unit like the i3, the answer is that the hardware and maps are developed independently of each other. Map updates are released roughly once a year and new hardware is coming out all the time.
It will be an interesting development if Garmin change their upgrade policy. It goes to show that the Sat Nav market is really hotting up and the consumer is the winner.
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zogman
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Joined: Sep 05, 2005
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Location: swindon uk
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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if garmin upgrade the v7 maps to v8 maps as they have suggested it wont cost them that much because i assume that only members of this forum who know of the offer will benefit....i cant see garmin advertising the free upgrade nationally and therefore many purchasers who dont have a pc or internet access or even read this forum will loose out...
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MikeB
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Location: Essex, UK
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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| zogman wrote: | | if garmin upgrade the v7 maps to v8 maps as they have suggested it wont cost them that much because i assume that only members of this forum who know of the offer will benefit....i cant see garmin advertising the free upgrade nationally and therefore many purchasers who dont have a pc or internet access or even read this forum will loose out... |
Only users of this forum know at the moment. When Garmin hav the upgrade process in place they will make a formal press release and everyone will know.
Be prepared to be a bit disappointed with the latest maps. They are likely to be about 9-12 months behind road completions at best, or over 2 years old depending on the surveying of new roads and changed layouts. This is normal with digital mapping.
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zogman
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Joined: Sep 05, 2005
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Location: swindon uk
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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| MikeB wrote: | When Garmin hav the upgrade process in place they will make a formal press release and everyone will know.
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if this is as you say this will be a massive operation for garmin... say they have sold 20.000 i3 units , theres gonna be alot of stamp licking by garmin.. 
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dougconran
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Joined: Oct 07, 2004
Posts: 175
Location: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | When you buy a product it must be fit for the purpose it was intended for, if the maps are so out of date that they are updated within a few weeks of a products release then this is not the case and trading standards dictate you have a right to a refund on that product... |
Hey, crazylegs, have you used your i3 yet? If so, did it get you to your destination? If yes then it's not unfit for the purpose intended.  |
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SayCheese
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Joined: Sep 26, 2005
Posts: 16
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| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 10:28 am Post subject: |
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I'm just amazed at the bad feeling expressed here. People who love their i3 one day and feel cheated the next? It's a little silly.
I never saw how it could be so cheap except by Garmin choosing to subsidise the initial unit and making money on consumables in the form of map upgrades, European maps etc. Just like razors and printers.
The idea of free map upgrades for life is, well, preposterous.
Relax and sit back, folks - isn't that why you bought Sat Nav in the first place? |
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timkemp
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Joined: Oct 22, 2005
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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| SayCheese wrote: | I'm just amazed at the bad feeling expressed here. People who love their i3 one day and feel cheated the next? It's a little silly.
I never saw how it could be so cheap except by Garmin choosing to subsidise the initial unit and making money on consumables in the form of map upgrades, European maps etc. Just like razors and printers.
The idea of free map upgrades for life is, well, preposterous.
Relax and sit back, folks - isn't that why you bought Sat Nav in the first place? |
Certainly, in the case of car manufacturers original equipment navigation the map updates are infrequent, the DVD and CD drives unreliable, and updates are expensive. The i3 is great value, the prospect of a free update (so far only the new bit of A1M near Leeds has annoyed me with it) is a bonus.
This is the best value unit so far, when the USB port broke I was gutted! PC World exchanged it though (was just on the 28 days!) |
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Rickus
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Joined: Oct 27, 2005
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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Not sure about an upgrade but i just bought an I3 from PC Word for £179 and it seems to be installed with V8 maps!
Says City Navigator Europe NT+ v8. Correct me if i'm wrong!!! |
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Skippy
Pocket GPS Verifier
Joined: 24/06/2003 00:22:12
Posts: 2946
Location: Escaped to the Antipodies! 36.83°S 174.75°E
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 1:28 am Post subject: |
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| Rickus wrote: | Not sure about an upgrade but i just bought an I3 from PC Word for £179 and it seems to be installed with V8 maps!
Says City Navigator Europe NT+ v8. Correct me if i'm wrong!!! |
Hmm, might pay to double check here. It sounds kind of odd because the i3 usually comes with "City Select" not "City Navigator" maps.
Previously, Garmin have sold GPS units with out of date maps and offered a free upgrade to the latest ones. That's what happened with my Quest - v7 had been out for months and I got v6.
Who knows, maybe they are changing the way they work with the i3...
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Jaz666
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Joined: Aug 10, 2005
Posts: 88
Location: Clitheroe, Lancs
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 10:40 am Post subject: |
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| Garmin announced this week (though not on their website) that they are fazing out City Select in favour of City Navigator - they are exactly the same, but Navigator has a couple more attributes per road (though not all Garmin units can take advantage). |
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Montala
Regular Visitor
Joined: Oct 23, 2005
Posts: 155
Location: Leominster
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| Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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Hi,
I read in another thread (or was it here!) that some lucky folk have already purchased an i3 which contains V8 of City Navigator.
Could now be a good time to start pushing Garmin for an update for existing users, I wonder... especially for those who have only bought one in the last week or so? |
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rother
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Joined: Jan 26, 2005
Posts: 81
Location: North Lincs
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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just been intouch with Garmin re V8 maps.
they say
"if yopu bought it
AFTER 15/09/05 you get it free! "
funnily enough bought mine last week from PCW, didnot think to check the map in settings and i already have ver 8.
still out of date though on some of my routes but i suppose it is a moving target.
many thanks
rother. |
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Trajet
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Joined: Oct 04, 2005
Posts: 160
Location: Highlands of Scotland
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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| rother wrote: | just been intouch with Garmin re V8 maps.
they say
"if yopu bought it
AFTER 15/09/05 you get it free! " |
Great, but how do you get it free? |
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