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Joined: Jun 20, 2005 Posts: 90 Location: Midlands, UK
Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 3:05 pm Post subject:
tel33 wrote:
The main problem with the speed cameras is that they make you take your eyes off the road to keep looking at your speedo to make sure you are within the speed limit.
You should be glancing at your speedo every few seconds anyway, along with checking your mirrors etc.
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IMO it makes me feel sad to read that where cameras have been put up the accident rates in most of them have risen due to this and also due to people braking hard to slow down
This I agree is a problem, but again it's all down to driver training. How often of you been behind a car that isn't even doing the speed limit but they still hit their brakes when they approach the camera? If they *had* been regularly checking their speed they wouldn't have to panic brake........
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we all know that the camera can save lives but once you are past them you tend to speed up so they are infact mainly money makers and dont have such a real impact on saving lives as the Government of the Police say they do.
I hate that money-making argument. They're only money making if people are speeding! Don't speed, and you wont have to pay......
It makes me laugh though how the government measure the success of a camera but how many drivers it's caught. Surely the success of a camera is defined by how many time it *wasn't* triggered....
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Incidentally Hooloovoo, you said that you dont mind so much that bikers speed, do you want to have a look at this site, it might help change your mind. Speeding on a bike is not fun if you crash and we were not speeding but it hurt all the same ... You are far more likely to die on a bike than in a car that true, but I have seen some photos of a car that had a bike inside it, it killed all the passengers
You don't have to tell me about motorbike accidents.... my Dad is now officially registered disabled being unable to walk properly after some turned right across his path at some traffic lights and shattered his right leg with his front bumper. My Dad was doing less than 30mph in the traffic, and the driver somehow "didn't see him" despite my Dad having the headlights on in broad daylight and everything. Ironically, if he had been riding faster (exceeding the speed limit) he probably would have got past and been okay.......
What I meant by not being so bothered about bikers speeding than cars is that in all probability the rider will only kill himself and not implicate others. Even if there is an impact with a car, just from basic momentum the rider will come off worse. Yes I'm sure there are plenty of examples of where a biker has caused the death of passengers in a car, but there can't be as many as where a boy-racer hooning around at similar stupid speeds has caused the death of an innocent party.
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the rider he was doing over 100mph at the time of impact but thats so easy to do on a bike, so maybe we all should think about speeding and consider is it worth it?
Well said.
I mean the number of times I've been overtaken on a dual carriageway only to catch them up every single time at the next set of traffic lights...............
Joined: Mar 23, 2005 Posts: 159 Location: UK Portsmouth
Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 6:05 pm Post subject:
Hi Hooloovoo
Yes I do agree with you on many of your points and I am very sorry to hear that your father had an accident, luckily he came away with his life ok but I know of others, including my sister, who had exactly the same accident as you Father "Sorry mate I did not see you" but these two accidents were not due to speeding just poor observation at junctions by the car driver, education as you have said would help prevent this and I agree on your boy racer problem but thats due to age and inexperience.
Speed on a bike is a big killer and will continue to be so much to the grieving of the families that lose the loved one.
The money point is still a valid one, there are many places where the speed limit has been dropped from 40 to 30 and then cameras placed there.
My present girlfirend got caught doing 36mph in a 30mph at 21:30 at night (Clean licence until then 3 points and £60 fine) this place was once a 40mph limit for as many years as I could remember, they suddenly changed the speed limit and put up a camera, no accidents have ever been reported there, this was in the local newspaper as a local councillor got caught too
My girlfriend had been going down that same road for over 5 years as a deputy headteacher (Yes she often works late) even later now as she a head, strangly when they changed it to 40mph they placed the smallest two signs they could possibly find stating it was 30mph but they were placed at a busy junction where you need to keep your eyes on the road and on the traffic not on some stupid small signs!
Thats why they are money making machine as it is not needed there yet they wont remove it and I am sure there are many other cash machines hidden behind signs etc.. in the wrong place, on a sharp bend causing the car driver to suddenly brake heavily and possibly lose control.
These speed Gatso cameras do not take into consideration of road conditions, time or anything!
I dont see these speed Gatso cameras picking out people with no Tax or Insurance (Unless specifiaclly designed to do so) they are there to prey on people who make one genuine mistake and then they pay for it with a £60 fine, 3 points on the licence and also higher insurance premiums for 3 years whilst it stays on the licence. Do you see my point?
About glancing at the speedo etc, granted you shoud be looking at your mirrors occasionally (Not every few seconds though!) but lets look at this sensibly.
You are normally going forwards not backward in a car, so the object you are most liable to hit will be in front of you, if you change direction or lane then yes look to see if its clear to do so, but on a straight road with no problems you should be observing the danger more to the front and sides of the road in front.
If you come into an area where there are a lot of cameras (London for instance) you dont want to lose you licence in one day (Have heard this happening) so you keep checking your speed and adjust it accordingly, these damm cameras are making you concentrate more on the speed you are doing and not the road in front and thats bad news!
How many time have you spotted an attractive person on the pavement in front of you whilst driving? You look think thats nice and oh my god when you turn back in the time you took to glance you find that the car has stopped in front and you only just stop 8O I bet many a time that has happened and these cameras are doing the same thing, they take your mind off the real dangers on the road.
Still thats my moral story of the day, hope you liked it
Cheers
tel33
P.S I have no points as I dont speed although I have made mistake that have nearly cost me a clean licence 34 in a 30mph but the camera did not go off, with the GPS in the car and POIWarner I have always got advanced warning, I bet the government willl ban these next! _________________ IPAQ 3950 Tomtom 6 with Navman 3450 sleeve v6 USA & Canada & Western Europe maps, 2gb Sandisk sd card, POIWarner V2.0.
TomTom 920T, v715 maps for USA & Canada, Western & Central Europe, 4gb SDHC Transcend Class 6
Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 10:50 pm Post subject: speed
I wrote ages ago to POV warner here in Germany and suggested a type of passive warner one that YOU can set yourself
I mean if I am on the Autobahn and dont want to go over 150km then set it for that
it is also a good idea for town deliverys so you can set it for 50Kph
he actualy wrote back and said he liked the idea and would work on it
Stu
Joined: Mar 23, 2005 Posts: 159 Location: UK Portsmouth
Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 10:26 am Post subject:
Thats a good idea, lets hope he does something, if you can do it for speed cameras and your current speed then it should work in theory. _________________ IPAQ 3950 Tomtom 6 with Navman 3450 sleeve v6 USA & Canada & Western Europe maps, 2gb Sandisk sd card, POIWarner V2.0.
TomTom 920T, v715 maps for USA & Canada, Western & Central Europe, 4gb SDHC Transcend Class 6
Yeah the best way is just to take more notice of the speed limit signs, then you'll always know the speed limit!
If you are one of these people who say there aren't enough speed limit signs, it's probably because you don't see them. They are there, some people just seem to have trouble seeing road signs........ probably too busy talking on their mobile or smoking a fag.
Best course of action is to take your advanced driving test and become a member of the IAM. Then you won't need the speed camera database either because you won't be driving at stupid speeds.
I no longer speed after been caught and fined (whilst on an unsign posted road) and im not some mad young driver if thats what your thinking and i dont smoke and theres no way id dream of using the phone, there enough dicks out there that shouldnt have a licence im sick of having some fool up my rear end cos i obay the speen limits. I was just wondering if there was such a program that knew the current road limit as i had the gps on the motoway and next to the road name (A1M) it said 60? but soon as i went to A roads it went off but i guess it would need updating all the time to be remotely uesable, just on a side note dont the road angels tell you the current road limit near the speed cameras? might be them i was thinking of
Joined: Jun 20, 2005 Posts: 90 Location: Midlands, UK
Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 4:03 pm Post subject:
tel33 wrote:
"Sorry mate I did not see you" but these two accidents were not due to speeding just poor observation at junctions by the car driver, education as you have said would help prevent this
For me this is also the argument against speeding. The majority of drivers lack the skills required to safely drive the car at or below the speed limit - as proven by the number of "did not see" accidents. The idea that they can safely remain in control of the car at higher speeds is simply ridiculous.
Now I'll probably get flamed by loads of drivers who all have amazing driving skills and are all budding Michael Schumacher's - and for all I know you may well be. But you have to work to the lowest common denominator, the law is set and it applies to everyone. We could change the law to allow 120mph on the motorway, but can you honestly say you believe that the majority of motorists could handle that speed?
I'd be interested to know just how many out of all the drivers who claim the speed limits are too low have undergone any further training or examination after their basic "L" test.
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strangly when they changed it to 30mph they placed the smallest two signs they could possibly find stating it was 30mph but they were placed at a busy junction where you need to keep your eyes on the road and on the traffic not on some stupid small signs!
I guess it depends on how they do it. The road I referenced that changed from 50 to 40, was (IMO) well signposted and well reported in the local papers - I knew it was going to change weeks in advance of the change date so I was prepared for it.
Of course in the case of a reduction to 30mph I could be pedantic here and quote from the highway code:
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103: You MUST NOT exceed the maximum speed limits for the road and for your vehicle (see the table below). Street lights usually mean that there is a 30 mph speed limit unless there are signs showing another limit.
So assuming that there were street lights, all they would technically have to do would have been remove the 40mph signs and the limit would automatically have reduced to 30mph with no other warning signs required..........
But of course I would never do such a thing........
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Thats why they are money making machine as it is not needed there yet they wont remove it and I am sure there are many other cash machines hidden behind signs etc.. in the wrong place, on a sharp bend causing the car driver to suddenly brake heavily and possibly lose control.
Speed cameras cannot be hidden. Even if you can see the camera itself you can still see the lines on the road that give the game away. If you can't see the lines because there is traffic covering them, then you probably shouldn't be driving so fast in those conditions anyway. Exceeding the speed limit round a sharp bend and then having to break heavily?? Surely exceeding the speed limit around a sharp bend is equally as dangerous as the camera......
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These speed Gatso cameras do not take into consideration of road conditions, time or anything! I dont see these speed Gatso cameras picking out people with no Tax or Insurance (Unless specifiaclly designed to do so) they are there to prey on people who make one genuine mistake and then they pay for it with a £60 fine, 3 points on the licence and also higher insurance premiums for 3 years whilst it stays on the licence. Do you see my point?
Can't disagree there. In fact its worse than that, on my insurance points remain on file for 5 years, even though they are removed from your license after three.
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You are normally going forwards not backward in a car, so the object you are most liable to hit will be in front of you, if you change direction or lane then yes look to see if its clear to do so, but on a straight road with no problems you should be observing the danger more to the front and sides of the road in front.
After having someone run into the back of my car at high speed, resulting in all the damage and physical injury that entails, I can say I am now as concerned about what's happening behind me as I am in front.
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If you come into an area where there are a lot of cameras (London for instance) you dont want to lose you licence in one day (Have heard this happening) so you keep checking your speed and adjust it accordingly, these damm cameras are making you concentrate more on the speed you are doing and not the road in front and thats bad news!
Luckily I don't drive in London (or any busy city for that matter if I can avoid it) but I can see your point. But surely in London there's so much traffic you can bearly reach the speed limit anyway.......
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How many time have you spotted an attractive person on the pavement in front of you whilst driving? You look think thats nice and oh my god when you turn back in the time you took to glance you find that the car has stopped in front and you only just stop 8O I bet many a time that has happened and these cameras are doing the same thing, they take your mind off the real dangers on the road.
Now you're just being silly....
To be honest I agree with most of what you wrote, I'm just arguing now for the sake of it....
Joined: Mar 23, 2005 Posts: 159 Location: UK Portsmouth
Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 6:21 pm Post subject:
Thought you were arguing for the sake of it
We can all agree and disagree on many issues on speeding but I guess the main fact is if you dont speed you dont get points and fines.
Incidentally here is an interesting site of cameras and mobile units sites that DONT comply with the recommendations of the governemnt (Recomendations being the operative word here).
All I can really end on is keep your GPS speed camera warner up to date, dont speed and if you do get caught then opps bang goes that clean licence and you have only yourself to blame.
Sorry to say but I am totally against these instruments of torture, they mainly pick up the person who loses concentration for a split second and we all do that from time to time.
I think what was said in the burnt out camera picture says it all really, where is the protection we really need in society, sitting having tea in an office no doubt filling in forms when they should be out catching real criminals not innocent motorists who normally have hurt no one excpet themsleves.
Cheers
tel33 _________________ IPAQ 3950 Tomtom 6 with Navman 3450 sleeve v6 USA & Canada & Western Europe maps, 2gb Sandisk sd card, POIWarner V2.0.
TomTom 920T, v715 maps for USA & Canada, Western & Central Europe, 4gb SDHC Transcend Class 6
Joined: Jun 20, 2005 Posts: 90 Location: Midlands, UK
Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 11:57 am Post subject:
I don't know. I can see and agree with both sides of the argument.
tel33 wrote:
Sorry to say but I am totally against these instruments of torture, they mainly pick up the person who loses concentration for a split second and we all do that from time to time.
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This picture seems to demonstrate the public's frustration with speed cameras, It's not surprising. Imagine if you were a honest, decent tax paying motorist with thirty years of problem free motoring behind you and one day for a few seconds you lose concentration and momentarily go from thirty to thirty six miles per hour in the wrong place - BANG YOU'RE DONE! - three points and a fine.
But it's that split second lapse in concentration that results in you running into the car infront that has just stopped suddenly, or hitting the child that has just run out into the road. When driving a car or operating any powerful machine you simply can't afford a split second lapse in concentration. Especially if you are going to exceed the current speed limits.
Now I know as you said we all do it from time to time, but no doubt many get complacent and do it more than others. A fine and 3 points might be just the kick up the arse that "thirty years of proplem free motoring" man needs to make him think about how his driving skills are progressing and whether he needs a refresher course on say the latest highway code.
Just because you have been driving for x number of years doesn't mean you know it all and have nothing to learn. Driving is a lifetime skill and we all have something to learn, the rules of the road are constantly changing. People who think they don't are probably the most dangerous of all.
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I think what was said in the burnt out camera picture says it all really, where is the protection we really need in society, sitting having tea in an office no doubt filling in forms when they should be out catching real criminals not innocent motorists who normally have hurt no one excpet themsleves.
And that of course is the other side of the argument. No one can disagree with that. As far as I'm concerned, they can put as many speed cameras as they like wherever they like. If you're familiar with you're car you can tell how fast you're going without even looking at the speedo that often, so the constantly looking at the speedo rather than the road excuse doesn't wash with me.
But using these cameras as a replacement for real policemen and women out on the street in cars is just wrong. When you're walking down the street at night, what do you fear the most? The boy-racer going past at 60mph and running you over or the guy about to jump you with a knife?
Notice I said police in cars not police "on the beat" - Police walking the streets has been proven to be the least effective way of policing an area. But that is a whole different argument. I thought we needed a new one since I think we're done with this one now
Joined: Mar 23, 2005 Posts: 159 Location: UK Portsmouth
Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 2:13 pm Post subject:
I agree we have beaten this one to death and I cant be bothered anymore 8)
Its been nice talking to you :D
Cheers
tel33 _________________ IPAQ 3950 Tomtom 6 with Navman 3450 sleeve v6 USA & Canada & Western Europe maps, 2gb Sandisk sd card, POIWarner V2.0.
TomTom 920T, v715 maps for USA & Canada, Western & Central Europe, 4gb SDHC Transcend Class 6
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turned right across his path at some traffic lights and shattered his right leg with his front bumper. My Dad was doing less than 30mph in the traffic, and the driver somehow "didn't see him" despite my Dad having the headlights on in broad daylight and everything. Ironically, if he had been riding faster (exceeding the speed limit) he probably would have got past and been okay.......
