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Garmin back to TomTom (because of bad Cornwall routing)
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sussamb
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As has been discussed before when this routing topic has come up the necessary data must be in the map data, as Garmin devices like the Camper and Dezl series allow you to enter vehicle details and then are meant to avoid unsuitable roads, eg those that are too narrow, low bridges etc.

However Garmin no doubt take the view (at least at the moment) that that data shouldn't necessarily be taken into account when routing on the bog standard Drive and Nuvi models. It's no doubt possible for example that there could be a setting enabling users to avoid roads under a certain width, but are enough affected by this and do enough bother to complain?

Perhaps those here who feel this is necessary (personally I've never had an issue with narrow roads) should make a suitable suggestion at http://www8.garmin.com/contactUs/ideas/ as the more that do the more it's likely to be introduced.
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Privateer
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bo Peep and I have just returned from our week in Cornwall.

No SatNav is perfect and it should also be remembered that your SatNav is a driver aid and nothing more.

MaFt wrote:
My personal theory is that the narrow roads are, technically, 60mph speed limit so it assumes you can reach that speed - ergo it's a faster route.

When I had set a "camper" as the vehicle I was driving, even with the virtual vehicle dimensions (and a max speed of 70 mph) I found that the speed limit for camper was displayed as 50 mph on a few A roads where the normal speed limit for solo vehicles is 60 mph, yet on a lot of the narrow single track lanes the speed limit was shown as 60 mph.

MaFt wrote:
It's been a while since I've used Garmin, do their maps have the equivalent to TomTom's where they log average speeds over time on each road?

TomTom has "IQ Routes" which is based on historical actual average speed data, rather than permitted speed limits. I believe that Garmin has its equivalent of IQ Routes but I cannot remember what it's called. [Edit] I think that Garmin's historical traffic data is called "Traffic Trends"

Unfortunately, by the very nature of the Cornish narrow lanes means that their traffic is much less therefore number of TomTom or Garmin SatNav routes is very small so there may not be enough data to sample thus the national speed limit of 60 mph is used!

sussamb wrote:
Garmin's 'learn' your driving style so if you travel narrow roads a lot they'll adjust the speed you travel roads with a 60mph limit down, although I suspect for the majority of us that only hit narrow roads.

I've had the Garmin Camper since October 2017 (currently about three months) which ever vehicle I'm driving I have it on the windscreen as well as my iPhone showing TomTom GO mobile. In that time I have seen no indication that the Garmin has learnt my driving style nor routing preference.

Whilst in Cornwall I used three SatNavs:

TomTom iOS GO Mobile
This gave the best routing (quickest and most sensible) and its Traffic data is very good. On the way home I ignored the traffic warning of a holdup on the A30 when I joined it from the A391 (near Lanivet) and we paid the price by sitting in a jam for just over an hour!

Unfortunately TomTom iOS GO Mobile has a lot of things wrong with it, one of the major ones is screen lag (dangerous at junctions and roundabouts). It also lacks custom POI support, I use POIViewer to navigate to my custom POIs as a invaluable get-around, unfortunately TomTom iOS GO Mobile doesn't remember your recent destinations when you use POIViewer, but at least with POIViewer you can use custom POIs in TomTom iOS GO Mobile!

Garmin Camper 770 LMT-D
A nice big screen and you can use custom POIs. The routing is a little "off" and I have had several occasions where it has tried to route me off a perfectly good road only to rejoin the road a couple of miles (and several unnecessary junctions) later. This unfuntately reduces my confidence in the Garmin.

Whilst I did have DAB traffic reception, the Garmin failed to report the incident on the A30 (which the TomTom flagged) until we were already committed on the A30 with no option but to wait it out.

CoPilot iOS
Thanks to AllanKnowles earlier post, I remembered that I had the app on my phone. The app gives you three choices of route but I only used it for 10 miles or so as I felt that if I deviated from the chosen route, the app would force me back to the orginal route instead of recalculating from my current position and thus determine that a new route would be best. This is probably a poor evaluation of CoPilot and I will return to it as I need to use it longer (i.e. 100s if not 1,000s of miles like I have done with TomTom and Garmin).

Regards,
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Robert.
iPhone 6s Plus, iOS 14.0.1: iOS CamerAlert v2.0.7
TomTom GO Mobile iOS 2.3.1; TomTom (UK & ROI and Europe) iOS apps v1.29
Garmin Camper 770 LMT-D


Last edited by Privateer on Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:26 pm; edited 2 times in total
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sussamb
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom Tom of course isn't perfect either with lots of similar posts to this one

https://en.discussions.tomtom.com/go-5xxx-6xxx-series-go-4xx-6xx-series-go-via-and-start-4x-6x-series-mydrive-connect-176/how-to-avoid-single-track-roads-1016975

Guess TT users should also complain to TT if they want better routing.
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Privateer
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sussamb wrote:
Tom Tom of course isn't perfect either with lots of similar posts to this one

https://en.discussions.tomtom.com/go-5xxx-6xxx-series-go-4xx-6xx-series-go-via-and-start-4x-6x-series-mydrive-connect-176/how-to-avoid-single-track-roads-1016975

Like I said:
Privateer wrote:
No SatNav is perfect and it should also be remembered that your SatNav is a driver aid and nothing more.

sussamb wrote:
Guess TT users should also complain to TT if they want better routing.

Oh, we do - believe me! See my thread TomTom GO Mobile iOS project dead? over at TomTom, to be honest I'm surprised that TomTom hasn't banned me from that forum for being negative to TomTom! Wink

Regards,
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Robert.
iPhone 6s Plus, iOS 14.0.1: iOS CamerAlert v2.0.7
TomTom GO Mobile iOS 2.3.1; TomTom (UK & ROI and Europe) iOS apps v1.29
Garmin Camper 770 LMT-D
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arfurdent
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

so what apps would you recommend that can also take third party pois
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AllanKnowles
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The best in terms of being able to have downloaded maps, customise routing, good traffic, map updates and able to import POIs is Co-Pilot followed by Magic Earth (ex Route 66).

I have tried extensively:-

Mapfactor Navigator
Sygic and its various forms (they took over a number of companies)
Aponia
Navitel
Dynavix

and a few others such as Here, etc.

Out of the above list, Mapfactor is very good but slightly long-winded with preparing POIs. It has customisable routes with OSM BUT it doesn't show you where the traffic is ahead and just reroutes you.
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sussamb
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What does co-pilot cost? Doesn't seem to say that anywhere?
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AllanKnowles
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One off charge of £25 for maps and updates and £13 for the basic navigation system and £10 for traffic (annual). Along with a cheap tablet, a lot less than a dedicated Garmin/TomTom.

It uses about 1MB an hour for traffic.
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