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Media awakens to Spike camera testing
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JockTamsonsBairn
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mikealder wrote:
This new camera system can issue a photograph with a UTC time stamp derived from the GPS signal which is why I think the manufacturers are making this option available - Mike
Mike, is there any particular benefit in this, compared to the broadcast atomic clock (in Rugby?) that keeps my alarm clock right?
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Guivre46
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

....and absolutely nothing to do with charging for road use at some point?
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wetsleet
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JockTamsonsBairn wrote:
mikealder wrote:
This new camera system can issue a photograph with a UTC time stamp derived from the GPS signal which is why I think the manufacturers are making this option available - Mike
Mike, is there any particular benefit in this, compared to the broadcast atomic clock (in Rugby?) that keeps my alarm clock right?


I'm sure they will use the timestamp on the photos for reference etc, but presumably the main reason for all this GPS time stuff is because they need to be able to work out average speed between two camera positions, so both cameras have to be synced to the same, accurate time reference, and GPS does just that. So I don't see it as an 'option', its fundamental to the concept of average speed between two points.
Why GPS time signals rather than Rugby? I guess if you are the manufacturer, its easy to have one solution which works across the world, rather than having to have different radio-time-signal receivers for different markets.
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MaFt
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wetsleet wrote:
So I don't see it as an 'option', its fundamental to the concept of average speed between two points.

but it IS an option according to PIP's own document.

also, there are other ways to sync the time. it can be done over GSM - some mobile phone networks send out the time to devices and change the DST settings etc. all the cameras will be linked to a central system be that via gsm, gprs, ethernet, wifi etc - why not simply sync the times that way?

MaFt
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M8TJT
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wetsleet wrote:
I'm sure they will use the timestamp on the photos for reference etc,
Do Specs and Spikes actually take photos for evidence, or do they JUST do number plate reading???
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Panet
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The discussion seems to have been mainly about the reporting of this issue rather than the matter itself.
The illustration looks like a normal ANPR camera of which there are already many hundreds inconspicuously placed all over the country. If these are now to be used as part of a speed detection network, now or in the future, than that is a major issue. Speed cameras are supposed to be conspicuous so they act as a deterrent and safety measure. These ANPR cameras certainly are not.
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Slyatslys
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In a similar line to Panet's comment ...

There is always the option that the accurate GPS position is used, in conjunction with say a route mapping package, to calculate the road distance between cameras thus making them quick and easy to add to the system, automatically set themselves up and very easy to move to a new location. This would also mean that the popular routes on a grid of streets could easily be covered and the camera locations could be changed regularly to cover new rat runs etc as they popup whilst people try to avoid the gaze of the cameras.

The other beauty is that they are stated as using GSM, GPRS or WLAN which means that the cameras could be put anywhere and the only requirement is "just add power" and could be used to time vehicles travelling from London to Lands End or Lands End to Edinburgh (yes rather extreme examples but you get my drift) therefore the only limit to the number is the size and speed of the database that backs the cameras up!
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adesalis
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 9:29 am    Post subject: Is GPS accurate enough for speed tickets? Reply with quote

I've read this with interest and wondering if GPS is accurate enough to provide precise distances wrt legal process. Also wondering if anyone has thought of challenging a SPECS conviction by claiming the distances are inaccurate - if the distance is measured between the two poles but I have seen cameras at different angles (pointing down at a steeper angle to avoid e.g. motorway bridges, etc) - doesn't this mean they record your plate at a different location to another camera that was, say, pointing in a less steep angle? And now if they're going to use GPS to record where they are, surely this isn't 100% accurate either.
It just it strikes me that people have got off tickets issued by stationary speed cameras on the grounds the markings on the road were incorrect (even if they were just centimetres out), so does this give someone an opportunity to challenge the so-called wonder technology?
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alanb247
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:08 am    Post subject: Spike Cameras Reply with quote

With current Gatsos there is at least some supposed logic to their use, they are meant to be installed at possible accident sites and are meant to deter excess speed and reducce the accident rates. Mind you some of their locations beggar belief regards being an accident black spot.

These Spike cameras are situated anywhere with no logic behind their location except to catch those doing excess speed and to punish them in order to raise taxes.

These cameras are just another erosion of our civil liberties, they can and WILL be used to keep tracks on all of us. Just like some of the-anti terror legislation that is being mis-used to try and control certain members of our population It's big brother keeping an eye on us, though a bit later than originally planned!
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st1967
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whatever the final outcome of any new device it is still another way to get money from the "easy target" that is the Great British Motorist.

I mean put one of every lampost and get get it over with.
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Stand-Offish
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The technology is secondary to the main aim of producing cheaper and by inference more numerous camera sites.
When will we have enough of these insidious things?
When we all stick to speed limits.....which some jobsworth will then want to lower etc etc.
Ad infinitum.....
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adams901
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am pretty sure some of these have popped up on the A2, I noticed 3 small cameras all lined up against each other on the A2 by shootershill just above the existing speed camera

Here

and also on the A2 near Danson park.

Edit once to shorten hyperlink - Mike Alder
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Panet
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

adams901 wrote:
I am pretty sure some of these have popped up on the A2, I noticed 3 small cameras all lined up against each other on the A2 by shootershill just above the existing speed camera

Here

and also on the A2 near Danson park.


Can't see any above the speed camera, but you have a battery of ANPR cameras on the bridge.

Edit once to shorten Hyperlink - Mike Alder
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adams901
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

they wont be in the google maps photo as they have only appeared in the last few days Sad.

The traffic is usually at a standstill during rush hour so I'll try and get a photo of them then.
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geddit
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Guys, we all know the truth sometimes gets lost in the reporting - I think the key thing about 'GPS' here is the ease with which cameras can be located any distance apart without the necessity for measuring (such as with SPECS poles) - it even means they can be 'mobile'. Even so, having coordinates does not mean you know the length of the road in between them and I would hope the Home Office still requires the distance to be measured rather than take it off a teleatlas map!! Would love to know what the accuracy of these systems is likely to be.

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