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Battery Related Information
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Jay1967
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

a suggested replacement logo photo for SatMap

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/2178809932/[img]
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robs1972
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jay1967 wrote:
a suggested replacement logo photo for SatMap

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/2178809932/[img]


A bit harsh Laughing
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Jay1967
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

robs1972 wrote:
Jay1967 wrote:
a suggested replacement logo photo for SatMap

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/2178809932/[img]


A bit harsh Laughing


so was my last £500! ;)
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ocam
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jay 1967 - I agree with Rob but would go further; if you keep things civil and constructive we may yet keep the attention of Satmap and hopefully they'll take notice of user feedback. If you don't like the unit, vote with your feet, get your money back and carry on life without OS GPS rolling maps. I suspect there will still be plenty of people reading these threads long after you've gone back to your Garmin.

Of general interest, I heard that last week a Peak District mountain rescue team used an A10 in the "worst possible map reading conditions" at night to succesfully evacuate a casualty from the hill. As it happens I was staying near Buxton and last Tuesday was the foggiest I've seen for years. (Walking through Lud's Church, a narrow rock chasm near the Roaches, the unit kept lock.)

My own experience of the unit remains positive in all aspects. Mikealder has been right on the button with all his (patient) advice on battery life. The A10 has really boosted my enjoyment of running, walking and cycling in Cornwall (Lizard), the Peaks and around Leics where I live. I can't wait to get into the Lakes and Scotland. My wife's no good with paper map + compass, but more than happy taking charge of nav with the A10.

Anything still to come by way of PC planning and LiPol power options will be icing on the cake. I've waited long enough for a device like this, I for one will be as patient as is necessary for the rest of it to roll out.

Wonder what V1.04 will bring?

Regards
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Jay1967
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ocam wrote:
Jay 1967 - I agree with Rob but would go further; if you keep things civil and constructive we may yet keep the attention of Satmap and hopefully they'll take notice of user feedback. If you don't like the unit, vote with your feet, get your money back and carry on life without OS GPS rolling maps. I suspect there will still be plenty of people reading these threads long after you've gone back to your Garmin.

Of general interest, I heard that last week a Peak District mountain rescue team used an A10 in the "worst possible map reading conditions" at night to succesfully evacuate a casualty from the hill. As it happens I was staying near Buxton and last Tuesday was the foggiest I've seen for years. (Walking through Lud's Church, a narrow rock chasm near the Roaches, the unit kept lock.)

My own experience of the unit remains positive in all aspects. Mikealder has been right on the button with all his (patient) advice on battery life. The A10 has really boosted my enjoyment of running, walking and cycling in Cornwall (Lizard), the Peaks and around Leics where I live. I can't wait to get into the Lakes and Scotland. My wife's no good with paper map + compass, but more than happy taking charge of nav with the A10.

Anything still to come by way of PC planning and LiPol power options will be icing on the cake. I've waited long enough for a device like this, I for one will be as patient as is necessary for the rest of it to roll out.

Wonder what V1.04 will bring?

Regards


ocam,

I think there are far more damming comments just in this thread alone than the comic relief of that url in my post! Im just making light of what YOU people are typing!

Secondly, I've been following this device since late 2006 and I for one want it to succeed like all the other people that lashed out 500 odd quid!

Maybe SatMap have already seen the funny picture.. as the saying goes "if you cant laugh at yourself, who can you laugh at"?!!
Hey! it may even give them a bit of conscience to start ful-filling some of their promises?!! Laughing

With regards to constructive criticism, I think Iím giving my pennies worth to this forum (and out) - A balanced Pro's n Cons(ish). Iím even thinking of a video review since so many complain of seeing no reviews on the thing.
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Paul_ffitch
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Joined: Jan 04, 2008
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Location: Ipswich

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back to batteries...

I have a slight puzzle re the issue of the batteries draining while left in the unit, even though it's switched off. I understand what Mike Alder has been reporting, ie a current consumption while switched off measured at 32mA. Indeed, I have just check my Satmap unit with a good digital meter and measured a value that fluctuates between about 31 and 34mA, so a good agreement there.

My puzzle is that at that rate, a battery set made up of 2500mA hour batteries (good capacity NiMH) will last 2500/32 = 78 hours (and no it's not three times that for three batteries, as all the batteries will be draining at 32mA). So a fresh set of batteries will go flat in three days and a bit. But I've had a set of batteries in my unit for ten days since I last used the unit, and that included some actual use while walking. But when I switched the unit on today, it springs to life with four bars, dipping once to three and back to four. So presumably not full, but hardly empty.

So what's going on? The numbers don't stack up. Perhaps the unit has a short period of higher power consumption (32mA) when the batteries are first connected (but before the unit is actually switched on) which then settles to a lower quiescent value atfer a while? The method I used to measure the current consumption required about three hands, so I couldn't measure it, or record it, over a longer period.

Mike A: You appear to have a rather more robust measurement and logging capability. Did you make any longer term measurements of quiescent current?

The reason I am interested in this is that I'd like to know what sort of periods it makes sense to remove a battery, and what sort of periods it wouldn't be so necessary.
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mikealder
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok I will waste another set of batteries to answer the question above, all I can think is the device is using the batteries to charge an onboard power capacitor, once charged this current draw would drop to a far lower figure - just a guess mind. I have got used to removing the cells from my device once my walk is over, once bitten twice shy having written off a couple of sets of costly batteries in the early days!

I cannot log current drawn for more than about 80 hours though as the current clamp has its own internal cell that will require changing - this only takes around 2 minutes though.

If you want a cheap source for the Lithiums check out THIS to get free postage you have to purchase 6 packs which is 36 cells - best price I have found to date, and if you live in the NW they have a trade counter near J32 of the M6 Very Happy so you can buy less packets with no postage costs at all - Mike
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Paul_ffitch
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Location: Ipswich

PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been checking out batteries and battery chargers, and have just bought an Ansmann Energy 8 charger (as recommended by a previous poster), an Ansmann Energy Check battery tester (all types, 10% capacity increment indicators). Also 'X4Energy' 2700mAh NiMH batteries, which work out at £1.93 each inc VAT. All this from http://www.tantronics.co.uk

But while I was searching, I found http://www.battery-force.co.uk/ which sells AA Energizer Ultimate Lithiums at £3.44 for two, ie £1,72 each, plus quite reasonable postage charges. Eg Total of £15.63 for 8 batteries, so net £1.95 each. However the capacity of these Lithiums is quoted at 2900mAh. This is high, but I can't help drawing the conclusion that the 2700mAh NiMH cells I've ordered are much better choice overall (I hope).
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Jay1967
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul_ffitch wrote:
I've been checking out batteries and battery chargers, and have just bought an Ansmann Energy 8 charger (as recommended by a previous poster), an Ansmann Energy Check battery tester (all types, 10% capacity increment indicators). Also 'X4Energy' 2700mAh NiMH batteries, which work out at £1.93 each inc VAT. All this from http://www.tantronics.co.uk

But while I was searching, I found http://www.battery-force.co.uk/ which sells AA Energizer Ultimate Lithiums at £3.44 for two, ie £1,72 each, plus quite reasonable postage charges. Eg Total of £15.63 for 8 batteries, so net £1.95 each. However the capacity of these Lithiums is quoted at 2900mAh. This is high, but I can't help drawing the conclusion that the 2700mAh NiMH cells I've ordered are much better choice overall (I hope).


Im confusd by all this bettery talk. Lithium, Alkaline, NiMh - is your choice currently (Highs) 2700 - 2900maH capacities. Lithium more exopensive but not recharageable, Only choice 2700-2900 mAh NiMh as NiCad are a nono. Price £5-16. No matter what your choice in this range, times will be approximately the same. END OF TOPIC! and yes.. i tried 'em all!

End of topic.
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Yasack
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK everyone,

I just need to recap as all this information on batteries is over my head. Rolling Eyes

I use rechargeable batteries which last between 2-3 hours. This is a problem if I am walking for 6-8 hours. Therefore what is my best solution as I am off to the Brecon Beacons at the weekend and I need something that will last. Could you advice A.S.A.P so I can get what I need ordered.

Regards,


Richard Smile
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lucevans
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yasack wrote:
OK everyone,

I just need to recap as all this information on batteries is over my head. Rolling Eyes

I use rechargeable batteries which last between 2-3 hours. This is a problem if I am walking for 6-8 hours. Therefore what is my best solution as I am off to the Brecon Beacons at the weekend and I need something that will last. Could you advice A.S.A.P so I can get what I need ordered.

Regards,


Richard Smile



You need to tweak the power-saving options in your satmap to get more out of the rechargeables than 2-3 hours. I had the same problem as you when using the factory-default power-saving options, but what I do now is set the following options in the setup menu:
under power options, set "automatic power saving" to "always on"
set "automatic screen turn off" to "off after 30 seconds"
set "alert when screen off" to "off"

This turns the screen off if no button/joystick is pressed for 30 seconds, but the gps circuitry stays on, tracking your location (this doesn't need much power). Whenever you need to check your location, just press any key and the screen springs to life instantly with your up-to-date position displayed. By using this method, I now get 8+ hours life out of a set of freshly-charged 2000mAh NiMH batteries.

Enjoy the Beacons!

Rob
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bluewomble
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been using Energizer Lithium AA batteries (the same type as the ones that came with the Satmap) a set of those normally lasts me for about 10 hours of cycling.

As other people have said, these batteries are expensive, but they seem to offer the best value for money for disposable batteries.

I haven't tried rechargeable batteries yet, so I can't comment on those... but I would have thought that high power NiMh cells (2800 mAh cells) would give a fairly reasonable battery life, comparable to the energizer lithium cells.

I always turn the backlight down to the lowest usable setting that conditions allow to save power (i.e. I do use it on 100% backlight if it's bright sunshine, about 40 or 50% on a cloudy day and 10% at night)

I also switch the Power Saving mode to switch off the screen after a minute without use.
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Yasack
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
You need to tweak the power-saving options in your satmap to get more out of the rechargeables than 2-3 hours. I had the same problem as you when using the factory-default power-saving options, but what I do now is set the following options in the setup menu:
under power options, set "automatic power saving" to "always on"
set "automatic screen turn off" to "off after 30 seconds"
set "alert when screen off" to "off"

This turns the screen off if no button/joystick is pressed for 30 seconds, but the gps circuitry stays on, tracking your location (this doesn't need much power). Whenever you need to check your location, just press any key and the screen springs to life instantly with your up-to-date position displayed. By using this method, I now get 8+ hours life out of a set of freshly-charged 2000mAh NiMH batteries.


I use rechargeable Vapex 2700 mAh Ni-Mh batteries with exactly the same settings as you have stated and find I am really lucky if I get 3 Hrs life!!!

Which rechargeables are you using to get such great life times? If I could get this life out of a set I would not consider disposable batteries.

regards,


Richard
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mikealder
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bear in mind the diference in battery voltage with fresh cells:
NiMH are 1.2V so 3 in series = 3.6V
Lithiums are 1.5V so 3 in series = 4.5V (often these cells can be 1.8V though)

Now consider the voltage at which the device will turn off 3.25V

As the cell lose power due to being used the voltage will drop, with NiMH you can see from the above that they only have to drop 0.35V to trigger the shutdown within the device, the discharge rate and voltage decay curve will be different depending uon the actuall cells employed - Mike
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Yasack
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Bear in mind the diference in battery voltage with fresh cells:
NiMH are 1.2V so 3 in series = 3.6V
Lithiums are 1.5V so 3 in series = 4.5V (often these cells can be 1.8V though)

Now consider the voltage at which the device will turn off 3.25V

As the cell lose power due to being used the voltage will drop, with NiMH you can see from the above that they only have to drop 0.35V to trigger the shutdown within the device, the discharge rate and voltage decay curve will be different depending uon the actuall cells employed - Mike


So Mike on this information, what would be your recommendation for batteries that would best suit my time in the Brecon Beacons this weekend?

Regards,


Richard
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