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IBM to equip all UAE cars with GPS and tracking device
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lbendlin
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 10:09 pm    Post subject: IBM to equip all UAE cars with GPS and tracking device Reply with quote

As reported in the media to day, IBM got a big contract from the UAE to equip all the cars with GPS and tracking devices, supposedly to decrease the number of traffic related deaths.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/04/15/ibm_monitors_uae_drivers/

http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/58623

Wonder if this is something like the beginning of an era... What do you think?
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gingernut777
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2005 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the relatively small charge for GPS and tracking devices, against the prices of new cars, i think they SHOULD be fitted to all cars as standard.
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Bodo
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This opens up many possibilities....
Law enforcement - as it will be possible to create a detailed log of driving, speeding might finally become something of the past. :D
Road tax - We might be able to pay road tax based on road usage, including distance driven, on quiet or busy roads, and in peak times or otherwise (different rates for all of the above) :D
Crime - add a little extra kit, and stolen/uninsured/unlicenced cars might become immobilised Evil or Very Mad
Is this progress? Or Big Brother?
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MikeB
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My opinion is that it a violation of my human rights. I have a right to privacy and this will clearly be an abuse of it.

I have nothing to hide, but seriously object to a group of busy bodies who claim to want to reduce crime etc which would then trickle different form of survailance into all sorts of other walks of life.

I believe that tracking does have a role in modern driving, but at the discression of the driver of the car, not some faceless authoritarian body.
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genghisackroyd
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I want to know is with regard to speeding and given the following situation:

You're driving along a straight road with a speed limit of, say, 30
You lookin you're rear view mirror and ever so slightly accelerate to 1 or 2 mph above the limit.
A few seconds later you check the speedo and correct your speed.

Now given that most automatic fines are sned out without anyone reviewing I believe that if this came to this country (UK) it would generate literally billions in a few months.

However, if it could be linked into the vehicles CPU/ECM and prevent the vehicle exceeding the speed limit for that type of road (you could even force vehicles to go no faster than 20/15 mph in residential/school areas) then perhaps it is no bad thing 'cause you could be done for speeding as it is now impossible.

Not sure how applicable it would be as older cars won't have ECU's etc. (anybody interested in a mark one Golf GTI? Laughing )

IMHO In short good idea - if properly thought through, but as normal I think it will remain just that ... a good idea.
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Maxi
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MikeB wrote:
My opinion is that it a violation of my human rights. I have a right to privacy and this will clearly be an abuse of it.


I agree totally. Anyway, exactly how accurate would speed limit monitoring via GPS be? Bearing in mind positioning accuarcy for standard consumer GPS systems is around +/-10 to 20 meters I'd imagine the accuracy of speed monitoring to be more than dubious! Also what about 'signal multipath' and other sources of GPS errors?

I'd like to see the UK Govornmet trying to get something like this through with all the fuss kicked up about ID cards. Would be the Poll Tax all over again!
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lbendlin
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maxi wrote:
Anyway, exactly how accurate would speed limit monitoring via GPS be?


It's much more precise than the speedo in your car, but it is a discrete measurement - speed only gets calculated every second. A lot of things can happen within a second, including complete standstills :-(

Anyone here in the forums who has been to Singapore or Dubai? Those guys already have that fancy little bell that sounds whenever your car is speeding, and it sounds continuously...
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Maxi
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lbendlin wrote:
Maxi wrote:
Anyway, exactly how accurate would speed limit monitoring via GPS be?


It's much more precise than the speedo in your car


That told me! Embarassed Laughing Out Loud
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nej
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't worry Maxi - your points are still extremely valid. I work in tracking and quite frequently see inaccurate speeds recorded due to a brief bad position. I suppose with a bit of intelligence in the box you could counter this though, i.e. if the speed increases more than x mph in a second, or the position jumps more than x meters.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maxi wrote:
Anyway, exactly how accurate would speed limit monitoring via GPS be?


At a constant speed, in a straight line, it has the potential to be very accurate, but there are a lot of limitations. Probably what they would do is average your speed over (say) 10 seconds to get a reliable reading.

lbendlin wrote:
Anyone here in the forums who has been to Singapore or Dubai? Those guys already have that fancy little bell that sounds whenever your car is speeding, and it sounds continuously...


They have this in Japan too. Singapore is pretty much a police state when it comes to motoring and they pretty much invented the toll system that inspired the London Congestion Charge.
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Bodo
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I spent four years in BHahrain, Saudi Arabia and Dubai/Abu Dhabi, and owned two cars during this time.

The bell that sounds in cars goes off at just over 100 Km/h, and is extremely irritating. You really need to crank up the radio to drown out the sound!!
But it does allow you to travel faster (e.g. overtaking) if needed.

GPS software would allow a similar device to sound whenever you exceed the limit, thereby giving you an instant warning when you do stray above the limit.

To be fined you would be required to willfully and knowingly exceed the limit.
If the authorities are fair, then they would fine you once you exceed the limit by a (un)reasonable margin for a specific period of time.
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croxsons
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking of Singapore, yes that bell is annoying, but there is really no need to speed over there. Unless you are the one who owns that Jag XJ220! Smile

Has anyone seen the Singapore Road Toll Charging System in operation? Instead of having to ring Mr Livingstone every day, it just gets charged onto your credit card. Perhaps this is the best way of charging for the future? You get charged for driving on motorways, more for peak times, less for at night. That way no-one's rights get infringed, and the government still get their money.

This system would also ensure that those who drive the most miles, get charged the most, those with the biggest engines pay the most tax, (XJ220 no longer seems quite so attractive). Those who do the least mileage, pay the least. One thing I think should be an issue, is the shorter the journey, the more you pay per mile. Chelsea Tractors taking one kid 3 miles to school anyone?
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HOG
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would be good for tracking stolen cars I agree but do not like the idea of Big Brother watching my every move.

I too have nothing to hide and on a side welcome ID cards but this is taking it too far.

Oh I also notice that the speed the TTG states is always 2-3mph more than what my speed says?
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

croxsons wrote:
Has anyone seen the Singapore Road Toll Charging System in operation?


Yes, they have big gantries across the road at the entry points and each vehicle (including motorcycles) has to have a special box which sits on the dash and has a pre-paid smartcard inserted into it. The display shows how much credit they have and evey time you pass the gantry it charges you.

I think the system is rather clumsy, the London system with number plate recognition is quite a bit more elegant. It doesn't take into account how often you enter the charging zone though, it's just a flat fee. Depending on your point of view, this may be better or worse than the Singapore system.

Quote:
This system would also ensure that those who drive the most miles, get charged the most


Is this necessarily the best way to do it? For example, someone driving to work would pay a single toll in Singapore whereas a delivery driver would pay a toll every time they entered the charging zone - this could really add up.

In London, the commuter would pay the same amount as a delivery driver.

Quote:
Chelsea Tractors taking one kid 3 miles to school anyone?


Sure! Why would you make your kid cycle, use public transport or walk (risking getting lost, run over, abducted, molested, robbed or bullied) when you have a car and you could drive them to school for the cost of a few quid worth of fuel? Confused
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Considering the totalotarian regime in Dubai (or despotism perhaps better) it does not surprise me much that they will attempt to do this.

However, if one take is in to account the number of deaths on the roads there (about a 1000 a year) compared to the number of drivers (can't be more than about 500,000) with speeding and plain stupid driving this makes sort of sense.

And I did used to live in Dubai, personally I think the speed warning should be introduced in the UK as well, it will help and for msot cars it is just a matter of reprogramming the PCM as this functionality is required in all of the middle east states and many far east ones as well.
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